Talk:Controlled supply - Revision history

TheRealSteve: /* Actual Supply is Different From The Tables Here */

2015-09-02T00:35:24Z

Actual Supply is Different From The Tables Here

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:35, 2 September 2015
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	:I'm not sure if 'destroyed' coins should be taken into account. While they may never become part of transactions again, they were at least created. Duplicate coinbase and underpays are a different matter. I'd like to take these into account in at least the description in one of my graphs (see the talk page for the deleted graph), but would also like to see some source material from which to glean actual numbers. If you, or anybody else, can help out with this, it would be appreciated. [[User:TheRealSteve\|TheRealSteve]] ([[User talk:TheRealSteve\|talk]]) 21:48, 12 April 2015 (UTC)		:I'm not sure if 'destroyed' coins should be taken into account. While they may never become part of transactions again, they were at least created. Duplicate coinbase and underpays are a different matter. I'd like to take these into account in at least the description in one of my graphs (see the talk page for the deleted graph), but would also like to see some source material from which to glean actual numbers. If you, or anybody else, can help out with this, it would be appreciated. [[User:TheRealSteve\|TheRealSteve]] ([[User talk:TheRealSteve\|talk]]) 21:48, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
	:I'd still like to see some examples of further technical peculiarities that make existing bitcoin unspendable, as well as examples of bitcoin that actually entered into existence when it shouldn't have (thus raising the maximum), didn't enter into existence when they should have (thus lowering the maximum) and any other case that isn't simple loss or willful destruction. There's a section on this now, so by all means, add there directly [[User:TheRealSteve\|TheRealSteve]] ([[User talk:TheRealSteve\|talk]]) 12:36, 20 July 2015 (UTC)		:I'd still like to see some examples of further technical peculiarities that make existing bitcoin unspendable, as well as examples of bitcoin that actually entered into existence when it shouldn't have (thus raising the maximum), didn't enter into existence when they should have (thus lowering the maximum) and any other case that isn't simple loss or willful destruction. There's a section on this now, so by all means, add there directly [[User:TheRealSteve\|TheRealSteve]] ([[User talk:TheRealSteve\|talk]]) 12:36, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
	:: The Genesis block is unspendable due to an explicit code exception. Duplicate codebases account for another.. 25 BTC or so I think, plus fees. Destroyed bitcoins like OP_RETURN slowly grow total destroyed bitcoins over time as well. You can see this difference by running: bitcoin-cli gettxoutsetinfo and subtracting the total_amount from a calculated total, from genesis. At the moment, for example, total bitcoins that can ever exist if every lost bitcoin privkey is magically found again is: 20999839.77085749 BTC.		:: The Genesis block is unspendable due to an explicit code exception. Duplicate codebases account for another.. 25 BTC or so I think, plus fees. Destroyed bitcoins like OP_RETURN slowly grow total destroyed bitcoins over time as well. You can see this difference by running: bitcoin-cli gettxoutsetinfo and subtracting the total_amount from a calculated total, from genesis. At the moment, for example, total bitcoins that can ever exist if every lost bitcoin privkey is magically found again is: 20999839.77085749 BTC. {{unsigned\|Midnightmagic\|11:26, 30 August 2015}}
			::: Ah, that command is a good one. I'll see if I can add that to the relevant section in some understandable way. Thanks! [[User:TheRealSteve\|TheRealSteve]] ([[User talk:TheRealSteve\|talk]]) 00:35, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

	== Projected Bitcoins (Long Term) - the numbers ==		== Projected Bitcoins (Long Term) - the numbers ==

Midnightmagic: /* Actual Supply is Different From The Tables Here */

2015-08-30T11:26:49Z

Actual Supply is Different From The Tables Here

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:26, 30 August 2015
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	:I'm not sure if 'destroyed' coins should be taken into account. While they may never become part of transactions again, they were at least created. Duplicate coinbase and underpays are a different matter. I'd like to take these into account in at least the description in one of my graphs (see the talk page for the deleted graph), but would also like to see some source material from which to glean actual numbers. If you, or anybody else, can help out with this, it would be appreciated. [[User:TheRealSteve\|TheRealSteve]] ([[User talk:TheRealSteve\|talk]]) 21:48, 12 April 2015 (UTC)		:I'm not sure if 'destroyed' coins should be taken into account. While they may never become part of transactions again, they were at least created. Duplicate coinbase and underpays are a different matter. I'd like to take these into account in at least the description in one of my graphs (see the talk page for the deleted graph), but would also like to see some source material from which to glean actual numbers. If you, or anybody else, can help out with this, it would be appreciated. [[User:TheRealSteve\|TheRealSteve]] ([[User talk:TheRealSteve\|talk]]) 21:48, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
	:I'd still like to see some examples of further technical peculiarities that make existing bitcoin unspendable, as well as examples of bitcoin that actually entered into existence when it shouldn't have (thus raising the maximum), didn't enter into existence when they should have (thus lowering the maximum) and any other case that isn't simple loss or willful destruction. There's a section on this now, so by all means, add there directly [[User:TheRealSteve\|TheRealSteve]] ([[User talk:TheRealSteve\|talk]]) 12:36, 20 July 2015 (UTC)		:I'd still like to see some examples of further technical peculiarities that make existing bitcoin unspendable, as well as examples of bitcoin that actually entered into existence when it shouldn't have (thus raising the maximum), didn't enter into existence when they should have (thus lowering the maximum) and any other case that isn't simple loss or willful destruction. There's a section on this now, so by all means, add there directly [[User:TheRealSteve\|TheRealSteve]] ([[User talk:TheRealSteve\|talk]]) 12:36, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
			:: The Genesis block is unspendable due to an explicit code exception. Duplicate codebases account for another.. 25 BTC or so I think, plus fees. Destroyed bitcoins like OP_RETURN slowly grow total destroyed bitcoins over time as well. You can see this difference by running: bitcoin-cli gettxoutsetinfo and subtracting the total_amount from a calculated total, from genesis. At the moment, for example, total bitcoins that can ever exist if every lost bitcoin privkey is magically found again is: 20999839.77085749 BTC.

	== Projected Bitcoins (Long Term) - the numbers ==		== Projected Bitcoins (Long Term) - the numbers ==

TheRealSteve: /* Projected Bitcoins (Long Term) 'Years' column removal */ new section

2015-07-30T22:11:23Z

Projected Bitcoins (Long Term) 'Years' column removal: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:11, 30 July 2015
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	For technical purposes, the total supply should be noted as <tt><span class="btc">BTC</span>20,999,999.97690</tt> with a reminder that this depends on the current fixed point arithmetic. For colloquial use, <tt><span class="btc">BTC</span>21,000,000</tt> should be acceptable. [[User:TheRealSteve\|TheRealSteve]] ([[User talk:TheRealSteve\|talk]]) 22:01, 4 April 2015 (UTC)		For technical purposes, the total supply should be noted as <tt><span class="btc">BTC</span>20,999,999.97690</tt> with a reminder that this depends on the current fixed point arithmetic. For colloquial use, <tt><span class="btc">BTC</span>21,000,000</tt> should be acceptable. [[User:TheRealSteve\|TheRealSteve]] ([[User talk:TheRealSteve\|talk]]) 22:01, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

			== Projected Bitcoins (Long Term) 'Years' column removal ==

			I've finally removed the Years column from the "Projected Bitcoins Long Term" table. There's multiple arguments in favor of this: 1. The existing format was decimal years, which aren't very layperson friendly. 2. Laypersons may be misled to believe these year/date values are set in stone, when they are not. For relevant discussion, see the arguments regarding an earlier graph which I can only presume (as the file was deleted) was equally misleading, and this reddit comment thread (disclaimer: I'm a participant in that thread): https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/31g89l/rounding_error_in_the_wiki/ . If anybody wants to put year/date numbers back in: it's a wiki, go ahead, but I'd appreciate an outline of the arguments in favor in response here :) [[User:TheRealSteve\|TheRealSteve]] ([[User talk:TheRealSteve\|talk]]) 22:11, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

TheRealSteve: /* Actual Supply is Different From The Tables Here */

2015-07-20T12:36:04Z

Actual Supply is Different From The Tables Here

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:36, 20 July 2015
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	Note that the actual supply is different than what is listed on these graphs due to provably destroyed coins, duplicate coinbase, and underpays; this should be accounted-for in the graphs. [[User:Midnightmagic\|Midnightmagic]] ([[User talk:Midnightmagic\|talk]]) 16:32, 16 September 2014 (UTC)		Note that the actual supply is different than what is listed on these graphs due to provably destroyed coins, duplicate coinbase, and underpays; this should be accounted-for in the graphs. [[User:Midnightmagic\|Midnightmagic]] ([[User talk:Midnightmagic\|talk]]) 16:32, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
	:I'm not sure if 'destroyed' coins should be taken into account. While they may never become part of transactions again, they were at least created. Duplicate coinbase and underpays are a different matter. I'd like to take these into account in at least the description in one of my graphs (see the talk page for the deleted graph), but would also like to see some source material from which to glean actual numbers. If you, or anybody else, can help out with this, it would be appreciated. [[User:TheRealSteve\|TheRealSteve]] ([[User talk:TheRealSteve\|talk]]) 21:48, 12 April 2015 (UTC)		:I'm not sure if 'destroyed' coins should be taken into account. While they may never become part of transactions again, they were at least created. Duplicate coinbase and underpays are a different matter. I'd like to take these into account in at least the description in one of my graphs (see the talk page for the deleted graph), but would also like to see some source material from which to glean actual numbers. If you, or anybody else, can help out with this, it would be appreciated. [[User:TheRealSteve\|TheRealSteve]] ([[User talk:TheRealSteve\|talk]]) 21:48, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
			:I'd still like to see some examples of further technical peculiarities that make existing bitcoin unspendable, as well as examples of bitcoin that actually entered into existence when it shouldn't have (thus raising the maximum), didn't enter into existence when they should have (thus lowering the maximum) and any other case that isn't simple loss or willful destruction. There's a section on this now, so by all means, add there directly [[User:TheRealSteve\|TheRealSteve]] ([[User talk:TheRealSteve\|talk]]) 12:36, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

	== Projected Bitcoins (Long Term) - the numbers ==		== Projected Bitcoins (Long Term) - the numbers ==

Taras at 17:15, 7 July 2015

2015-07-07T17:15:11Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:15, 7 July 2015
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	{{WikiProject\|~~protocol~~}}		{{WikiProject\|Economics\|quality=C\|importance=TOP}}
			{{WikiProject\|Protocol\|quality=C\|importance=TOP}}
			{{WikiProject\|Mining\|quality=C\|importance=TOP}}
	== Do not Resurrect That Stupid Graph ==		== Do not Resurrect That Stupid Graph ==
	Please see my points over at [[File_talk:Total_bitcoins_over_time_graph.png]] which describe why I deleted the graph, and description of a suitable alternative. Seriously, the amount of misleading information that prior graph has disseminated into the public is horrorshow-enormous. [[User:Midnightmagic\|Midnightmagic]] ([[User talk:Midnightmagic\|talk]]) 07:11, 14 September 2014 (UTC)		Please see my points over at [[File_talk:Total_bitcoins_over_time_graph.png]] which describe why I deleted the graph, and description of a suitable alternative. Seriously, the amount of misleading information that prior graph has disseminated into the public is horrorshow-enormous. [[User:Midnightmagic\|Midnightmagic]] ([[User talk:Midnightmagic\|talk]]) 07:11, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Taras at 18:03, 29 May 2015

2015-05-29T18:03:56Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:03, 29 May 2015
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			{{WikiProject\|protocol}}
	== Do not Resurrect That Stupid Graph ==		== Do not Resurrect That Stupid Graph ==
	Please see my points over at [[File_talk:Total_bitcoins_over_time_graph.png]] which describe why I deleted the graph, and description of a suitable alternative. Seriously, the amount of misleading information that prior graph has disseminated into the public is horrorshow-enormous. [[User:Midnightmagic\|Midnightmagic]] ([[User talk:Midnightmagic\|talk]]) 07:11, 14 September 2014 (UTC)		Please see my points over at [[File_talk:Total_bitcoins_over_time_graph.png]] which describe why I deleted the graph, and description of a suitable alternative. Seriously, the amount of misleading information that prior graph has disseminated into the public is horrorshow-enormous. [[User:Midnightmagic\|Midnightmagic]] ([[User talk:Midnightmagic\|talk]]) 07:11, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

TheRealSteve: /* Actual Supply is Different From The Tables Here */

2015-04-12T21:48:13Z

Actual Supply is Different From The Tables Here

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:48, 12 April 2015
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	== Actual Supply is Different From The Tables Here ==		== Actual Supply is Different From The Tables Here ==
	Note that the actual supply is different than what is listed on these graphs due to provably destroyed coins, duplicate coinbase, and underpays; this should be accounted-for in the graphs. [[User:Midnightmagic\|Midnightmagic]] ([[User talk:Midnightmagic\|talk]]) 16:32, 16 September 2014 (UTC)		Note that the actual supply is different than what is listed on these graphs due to provably destroyed coins, duplicate coinbase, and underpays; this should be accounted-for in the graphs. [[User:Midnightmagic\|Midnightmagic]] ([[User talk:Midnightmagic\|talk]]) 16:32, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
			:I'm not sure if 'destroyed' coins should be taken into account. While they may never become part of transactions again, they were at least created. Duplicate coinbase and underpays are a different matter. I'd like to take these into account in at least the description in one of my graphs (see the talk page for the deleted graph), but would also like to see some source material from which to glean actual numbers. If you, or anybody else, can help out with this, it would be appreciated. [[User:TheRealSteve\|TheRealSteve]] ([[User talk:TheRealSteve\|talk]]) 21:48, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

	== Projected Bitcoins (Long Term) - the numbers ==		== Projected Bitcoins (Long Term) - the numbers ==

TheRealSteve: /* Projected Bitcoins (Long Term) - the numbers */

2015-04-04T22:03:15Z

Projected Bitcoins (Long Term) - the numbers

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:03, 4 April 2015
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	Each of the values is based on the actual number of satoshi rewarded per block. This reward halves every 210,000 blocks.[https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/main.cpp#L1179] This halving presents a potential point of confusion; at some point the reward would be 610,351.5 satoshi - which at {{as of\|2015\|04\|04}} cannot exist in the satoshi client's fixed point arithmetic limit.<br />		Each of the values is based on the actual number of satoshi rewarded per block. This reward halves every 210,000 blocks.[https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/main.cpp#L1179] This halving presents a potential point of confusion; at some point the reward would be 610,351.5 satoshi - which at {{as of\|2015\|04\|04}} cannot exist in the satoshi client's fixed point arithmetic limit.<br />
	The value is, instead, truncated to 610,351 satoshi. The total number of satoshi generated during that reward era is thus not <tt>210,000 * 610,351.5 = 128,173,815,000 (<span class="btc">BTC</span>1,281.73815000)</tt>, but <tt>210,000 * 610,351 = 128,173,710,000 (<span class="btc">BTC</span>1,281.73710000)</tt>. The same problem presents itself with any subsequent reward eras .<br />		The value is, instead, truncated to 610,351 satoshi. The total number of satoshi generated during that reward era is thus not <tt>210,000 * 610,351.5 = 128,173,815,000 (<span class="btc">BTC</span>1,281.73815000)</tt>, but <tt>210,000 * 610,351 = 128,173,710,000 (<span class="btc">BTC</span>1,281.73710000)</tt>. The same problem presents itself with any subsequent reward eras .<br />
	An earlier version of the table in this page had a single satoshi error in some of the values, likely due to related floating point accuracy issues.		An earlier version of the table in this page had a single satoshi error in some of the values, likely due to related floating point accuracy issues.[http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/31g89l/rounding_error_in_the_wiki/]

	At the actual last round there should be a total of <tt><span class="btc">BTC</span>20,999,999.97690000</tt>.<br />		At the actual last round there should be a total of <tt><span class="btc">BTC</span>20,999,999.97690000</tt>.<br />

TheRealSteve: /* Projected Bitcoins (Long Term) - the numbers */ new section

2015-04-04T22:01:51Z

Projected Bitcoins (Long Term) - the numbers: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:01, 4 April 2015
Line 4:		Line 4:
	== Actual Supply is Different From The Tables Here ==		== Actual Supply is Different From The Tables Here ==
	Note that the actual supply is different than what is listed on these graphs due to provably destroyed coins, duplicate coinbase, and underpays; this should be accounted-for in the graphs. [[User:Midnightmagic\|Midnightmagic]] ([[User talk:Midnightmagic\|talk]]) 16:32, 16 September 2014 (UTC)		Note that the actual supply is different than what is listed on these graphs due to provably destroyed coins, duplicate coinbase, and underpays; this should be accounted-for in the graphs. [[User:Midnightmagic\|Midnightmagic]] ([[User talk:Midnightmagic\|talk]]) 16:32, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

			== Projected Bitcoins (Long Term) - the numbers ==

			The Projected Bitcoins Long Term table in the page uses [[Units\|Bitcoin]] unit representation as a floating point number with an 8-digit precision to convey the actual number in [[Satoshi (unit)\|satoshi]], which has an integer representation inside the [[Bitcoin Core\|satoshi client]].

			Each of the values is based on the actual number of satoshi rewarded per block. This reward halves every 210,000 blocks.[https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/main.cpp#L1179] This halving presents a potential point of confusion; at some point the reward would be 610,351.5 satoshi - which at {{as of\|2015\|04\|04}} cannot exist in the satoshi client's fixed point arithmetic limit.<br />
			The value is, instead, truncated to 610,351 satoshi. The total number of satoshi generated during that reward era is thus not <tt>210,000 * 610,351.5 = 128,173,815,000 (<span class="btc">BTC</span>1,281.73815000)</tt>, but <tt>210,000 * 610,351 = 128,173,710,000 (<span class="btc">BTC</span>1,281.73710000)</tt>. The same problem presents itself with any subsequent reward eras .<br />
			An earlier version of the table in this page had a single satoshi error in some of the values, likely due to related floating point accuracy issues.

			At the actual last round there should be a total of <tt><span class="btc">BTC</span>20,999,999.97690000</tt>.<br />
			If using floating point math throughout, depending on the accuracy and behavior of the floating point calculations, this could end up being calculated as <tt><span class="btc">BTC</span>20999999.99877760</tt>, or a difference of <tt><span class="btc">BTC</span>0.02187764</tt>.<br />
			The floating point math approach will tend toward a total supply of <tt><span class="btc">BTC</span>21,000,000</tt>, and a difference from the actual current maximum of <tt><span class="btc">BTC</span>0.0231</tt>.

			For technical purposes, the total supply should be noted as <tt><span class="btc">BTC</span>20,999,999.97690</tt> with a reminder that this depends on the current fixed point arithmetic. For colloquial use, <tt><span class="btc">BTC</span>21,000,000</tt> should be acceptable. [[User:TheRealSteve\|TheRealSteve]] ([[User talk:TheRealSteve\|talk]]) 22:01, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

Midnightmagic at 16:33, 16 September 2014

2014-09-16T16:33:01Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:33, 16 September 2014
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			== Do not Resurrect That Stupid Graph ==
	Please see my points over at [[File_talk:Total_bitcoins_over_time_graph.png]] which describe why I deleted the graph, and description of a suitable alternative. Seriously, the amount of misleading information that prior graph has disseminated into the public is horrorshow-enormous. [[User:Midnightmagic\|Midnightmagic]] ([[User talk:Midnightmagic\|talk]]) 07:11, 14 September 2014 (UTC)		Please see my points over at [[File_talk:Total_bitcoins_over_time_graph.png]] which describe why I deleted the graph, and description of a suitable alternative. Seriously, the amount of misleading information that prior graph has disseminated into the public is horrorshow-enormous. [[User:Midnightmagic\|Midnightmagic]] ([[User talk:Midnightmagic\|talk]]) 07:11, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

			== Actual Supply is Different From The Tables Here ==
	Note that the actual supply is different than what is listed on these graphs due to provably destroyed coins, duplicate coinbase, and underpays; this should be accounted-for in the graphs. [[User:Midnightmagic\|Midnightmagic]] ([[User talk:Midnightmagic\|talk]]) 16:32, 16 September 2014 (UTC)		Note that the actual supply is different than what is listed on these graphs due to provably destroyed coins, duplicate coinbase, and underpays; this should be accounted-for in the graphs. [[User:Midnightmagic\|Midnightmagic]] ([[User talk:Midnightmagic\|talk]]) 16:32, 16 September 2014 (UTC)