Bitcoin Wiki - User contributions [en]

ICBIT

2013-09-30T05:37:27Z

FleaSpirit: remove redundant 'ICBIT' from beginning

−''''' There have been complaints about several core practices at icbit.'''''−

-The primary complaint involves contract price manipulations that allow larger traders, including the site owner, to make profits from smaller traders regardless of bitcoin price movements.

The first comprehensive post questioning various practices at icbit is https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125376.0

Examples of contract manipulations, including screenshots, is included in some complaints, including https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845

Complaints directed to the owner of icbit, who also is the principle contributor to this wiki page, include https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0

−'''Any potential investor should thoroughly understand the issues raised in the complaints. If you are not sure please ask questions in a public forum like bitcointalk.org and do not invest until all questions are answered to your satisfaction.'''−<ref>[http://trilema.com/2012/icbitse-the-bucket-shop/ Article by Mircea Popescu, proprietor of MPEx]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125376.0 Bitcointalk "bucket shop" thread]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845 Bitcointalk "icbit warning" thread]</ref>

ICBIT is a trading website which runs a few markets. Both the Exchange and Futures markets are live now.

'''ICBIT is not an exchange''' since it does not act as a central counterparty. [http://web.archive.org/web/20130510221928/https://icbit.se/margincall According to their website] users '''are totally exposed to counterparty risk from other traders''' whose identities are concealed from them; the exchange does not pledge its own assets to back the full extent of the other side of a customer's position -- it pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)". Traders are not allowed to conduct background or reputation checks of any kind on these anonymous counterparties. ICBIT recently modified the linked page and it '''now contains self-contradictory information,''' such as "we do pledge our own assets, it's not always the case" and "your profitable position will be closed" at whatever price the exchange deems convenient rather than value-at-maturity. Since the exchange pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)" it is, by definition, not the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterparty counterparty] -- the "loosing [sic] traders" are the counterparty.

A third party's blogger's assessment<ref>http://psychologicalinvestor.com/lib/real-markets/bitcoin-derivatives-liquidity-counterparty-risk-134/</ref> of the situation is that "ICBIT it is not acting as a clearing house, nor is it the counterparty to the futures trades it brokers. There is no clearing house guarantee, and counterparty risk remains largely unknown." The aforementioned blog also contains a rebuttal from ICBIT.

This site is said[source?] to be founded by Fireball and [[DeepBit]] by combining best practices in high-performance trading and Bitcoin experience.

== Counterparty risks ==
The ICBIT site acts as the central intermediary for trades in futures contracts. It does not act as a final guarantor for the clearing process itself, with the results of the clearing process still ultimately dependent upon the counterparty risk exposure to other traders. Thus, the exchange does not act as a counterparty.

Margin call policy is explained on the [https://icbit.se/margincall ICBIT website].

== Features ==
For its currency exchange section ICBIT makes an accent on the following:
* State-of-the-art technologies usage. Instead of using old, slow, polling-based algorithms ICBIT builds atop of the most up to date technologies. Its web trading client is in pure HTML and JavaScript (even compatible with most mobile devices), however it's fully realtime thanks to websockets and AJAX.
* Speed of trading. Bitcoin forum is full of anger against slowness of existing exchanges. ICBIT implements special high performance trading engine and uses high-performance "no SQL" database to eliminate the problem.
* No limits. Most of the existing exchanges put rather restrictive limitations and require users to prove their identity. ICBIT finds this totally unacceptable and does not put any limits at all.

==Futures==
Futures traded include:

Futures contracts on USD/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/BUQ3 BUQ3] (expires August 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUU3 BUU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUV3 BUV3] (expires October 14, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ3 BUZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on Bitcoin difficulty
* [https://icbit.se/DFU3 DFU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/DFZ3 DFZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on LTC/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/LBU3 LBU3] (expires September 17, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on S&P500 index
* [https://icbit.se/ESU3 ESU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Settled futures:
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ2 BUZ2] (Futures contract, expired December 15, 2012, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUH3 BUH3] (Futures contract, expired March 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/CLG3 CLG3] (Crude Oil Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/GDG3 GDG3] (Gold Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)

==Exchange==
Traded on the exchange are:

* BTC/USD
* BTC/RUB (Russian Ruble)

==Adding Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin deposits to the account's BTC EWallet. Funds are added to the account's wallet after six (6) confirmations. Transactions made by [[DeepBit]] mining pool are added instantly.

===USD===

There are no methods to add USD funds.

===RUB===

QIWI vouchers can be used to add funds to an account's Russian ruble EWallet.

==Widthraw Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin withdrawals from the account's BTC EWallet.

===USD===

There are no USD withdrawal methods.

===RUB===

Funds can be withdrawn from the account's Russian ruble EWallet as QIWI vouchers.

==Security==

Accounts can be protected where both login and any money withdrawal operation requires the one-time password (OTP) feature known as two-step authentication. A mobile smartphone with Google Authenticator is the most commonly used OTP device.

== History ==
First mentions of ICBIT appeared in June and July 2011 in the Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread at bitcointalk.org<ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=20377.msg319099#msg319099 Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread]</ref> and Bitcoin futures market discussion <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15818.msg250391#msg250391 Fireball's statement about ongoing futures exchange work]</ref>. By that time a very first version of the trading engine was developed.

A more detailed thread specific to ICBIT futures market was started <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg605807#msg605807 ICBIT derivatives market thread]</ref> in November, 2011. The first closed test of futures market was performed, and work on the new version of web trading client was started.

Finally in January, 2012 the currency exchange section went live <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60548.0 Bitcointalk announcement of a new exchange live testing]</ref>

==See Also==

* [[Buying bitcoins]]
* [[Selling bitcoins]]
* [[Bitcoin_Ladder#Top_Scams.2C_thefts.2C_hacks_and_heists|Top Scams, thefts, hacks and heists]]

== External Links ==
* [https://icbit.se ICBIT] website.
* [https://icbit.se/WebTrade/ Trading client] Direct link to the web trading client logon.
* At one point in the past, somebody who goes by the identifier "Fireball" [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414 voluntarily took the took one "bad customers" debt].

note, Fireball is the owner of icbit and the principle contributor to this webpage. He seems to have a history of 'refunding' bitcoin when there is a threat that improper practices may be exposed. See http://trilema.com/2012/icbitse-the-bucket-shop/ and then note the post at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140484.0 which was apparently made after Fireball returned "~500 BTC".

== References ==
<references />

[[Category:Exchanges]]
[[Category:Stock_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Bonds_Markets]]
[[Category:Futures_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Investing]]

ICBIT

2013-09-30T01:02:51Z

FleaSpirit: revised bucketshop link, restored See Also link

'''ICBIT'''
−''''' There have been complaints about several core practices at icbit.'''''−

-The primary complaint involves contract price manipulations that allow larger traders, including the site owner, to make profits from smaller traders regardless of bitcoin price movements.

The first comprehensive post questioning various practices at icbit is https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125376.0

Examples of contract manipulations, including screenshots, is included in some complaints, including https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845

Complaints directed to the owner of icbit, who also is the principle contributor to this wiki page, include https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0

−'''Any potential investor should thoroughly understand the issues raised in the complaints. If you are not sure please ask questions in a public forum like bitcointalk.org and do not invest until all questions are answered to your satisfaction.'''−<ref>[http://trilema.com/2012/icbitse-the-bucket-shop/ Article by Mircea Popescu, proprietor of MPEx]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125376.0 Bitcointalk "bucket shop" thread]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845 Bitcointalk "icbit warning" thread]</ref>

ICBIT is a trading website which runs a few markets. Both the Exchange and Futures markets are live now.

'''ICBIT is not an exchange''' since it does not act as a central counterparty. [http://web.archive.org/web/20130510221928/https://icbit.se/margincall According to their website] users '''are totally exposed to counterparty risk from other traders''' whose identities are concealed from them; the exchange does not pledge its own assets to back the full extent of the other side of a customer's position -- it pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)". Traders are not allowed to conduct background or reputation checks of any kind on these anonymous counterparties. ICBIT recently modified the linked page and it '''now contains self-contradictory information,''' such as "we do pledge our own assets, it's not always the case" and "your profitable position will be closed" at whatever price the exchange deems convenient rather than value-at-maturity. Since the exchange pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)" it is, by definition, not the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterparty counterparty] -- the "loosing [sic] traders" are the counterparty.

A third party's blogger's assessment<ref>http://psychologicalinvestor.com/lib/real-markets/bitcoin-derivatives-liquidity-counterparty-risk-134/</ref> of the situation is that "ICBIT it is not acting as a clearing house, nor is it the counterparty to the futures trades it brokers. There is no clearing house guarantee, and counterparty risk remains largely unknown." The aforementioned blog also contains a rebuttal from ICBIT.

This site is said[source?] to be founded by Fireball and [[DeepBit]] by combining best practices in high-performance trading and Bitcoin experience.

== Counterparty risks ==
The ICBIT site acts as the central intermediary for trades in futures contracts. It does not act as a final guarantor for the clearing process itself, with the results of the clearing process still ultimately dependent upon the counterparty risk exposure to other traders. Thus, the exchange does not act as a counterparty.

Margin call policy is explained on the [https://icbit.se/margincall ICBIT website].

== Features ==
For its currency exchange section ICBIT makes an accent on the following:
* State-of-the-art technologies usage. Instead of using old, slow, polling-based algorithms ICBIT builds atop of the most up to date technologies. Its web trading client is in pure HTML and JavaScript (even compatible with most mobile devices), however it's fully realtime thanks to websockets and AJAX.
* Speed of trading. Bitcoin forum is full of anger against slowness of existing exchanges. ICBIT implements special high performance trading engine and uses high-performance "no SQL" database to eliminate the problem.
* No limits. Most of the existing exchanges put rather restrictive limitations and require users to prove their identity. ICBIT finds this totally unacceptable and does not put any limits at all.

==Futures==
Futures traded include:

Futures contracts on USD/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/BUQ3 BUQ3] (expires August 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUU3 BUU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUV3 BUV3] (expires October 14, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ3 BUZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on Bitcoin difficulty
* [https://icbit.se/DFU3 DFU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/DFZ3 DFZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on LTC/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/LBU3 LBU3] (expires September 17, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on S&P500 index
* [https://icbit.se/ESU3 ESU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Settled futures:
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ2 BUZ2] (Futures contract, expired December 15, 2012, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUH3 BUH3] (Futures contract, expired March 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/CLG3 CLG3] (Crude Oil Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/GDG3 GDG3] (Gold Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)

==Exchange==
Traded on the exchange are:

* BTC/USD
* BTC/RUB (Russian Ruble)

==Adding Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin deposits to the account's BTC EWallet. Funds are added to the account's wallet after six (6) confirmations. Transactions made by [[DeepBit]] mining pool are added instantly.

===USD===

There are no methods to add USD funds.

===RUB===

QIWI vouchers can be used to add funds to an account's Russian ruble EWallet.

==Widthraw Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin withdrawals from the account's BTC EWallet.

===USD===

There are no USD withdrawal methods.

===RUB===

Funds can be withdrawn from the account's Russian ruble EWallet as QIWI vouchers.

==Security==

Accounts can be protected where both login and any money withdrawal operation requires the one-time password (OTP) feature known as two-step authentication. A mobile smartphone with Google Authenticator is the most commonly used OTP device.

== History ==
First mentions of ICBIT appeared in June and July 2011 in the Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread at bitcointalk.org<ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=20377.msg319099#msg319099 Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread]</ref> and Bitcoin futures market discussion <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15818.msg250391#msg250391 Fireball's statement about ongoing futures exchange work]</ref>. By that time a very first version of the trading engine was developed.

A more detailed thread specific to ICBIT futures market was started <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg605807#msg605807 ICBIT derivatives market thread]</ref> in November, 2011. The first closed test of futures market was performed, and work on the new version of web trading client was started.

Finally in January, 2012 the currency exchange section went live <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60548.0 Bitcointalk announcement of a new exchange live testing]</ref>

==See Also==

* [[Buying bitcoins]]
* [[Selling bitcoins]]
* [[Bitcoin_Ladder#Top_Scams.2C_thefts.2C_hacks_and_heists|Top Scams, thefts, hacks and heists]]

== External Links ==
* [https://icbit.se ICBIT] website.
* [https://icbit.se/WebTrade/ Trading client] Direct link to the web trading client logon.
* At one point in the past, somebody who goes by the identifier "Fireball" [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414 voluntarily took the took one "bad customers" debt].

note, Fireball is the owner of icbit and the principle contributor to this webpage. He seems to have a history of 'refunding' bitcoin when there is a threat that improper practices may be exposed. See http://trilema.com/2012/icbitse-the-bucket-shop/ and then note the post at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140484.0 which was apparently made after Fireball returned "~500 BTC".

== References ==
<references />

[[Category:Exchanges]]
[[Category:Stock_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Bonds_Markets]]
[[Category:Futures_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Investing]]

Talk:ICBIT

2013-09-29T19:25:50Z

FleaSpirit: /* The only solution */

There are at least two different edit disputes on this page. Please try to put your comments in the appropriate section and please try to deal with only one of these disputes in each of your edits. Thanks. [[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 23:20, 26 August 2013 (GMT)

__FORCETOC__

== Whether ICBIT is an Exchange providing full Central Counterparty backing ==

Please stop deleting material from this page. For a very long time ICBIT's webpage clearly explained that it was not a central counterparty. Now it's been changed to something absurdly self-contradictory that essentially says "we call ourselves a central counterparty but we aren't one and we explicitly deny the responsibilities that define the role of a central counterparty". The whole point of having a futures exchange is that you're exposed to credit risk from only one party and you know who that party is (the exchange). ICBIT is not doing that. If they decide to do that and say so publicly, then feel free to change this page, but unless/until then please stop deleting important facts. [[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 16:04, 13 August 2013 (GMT)

First of all, finally thank you for taking this into Discussion page. The thing is that you seem to misunderstand how exchanges work. Indeed, ICBIT acts as a counterparty to all futures contracts trades happening, and all major fiat money futures exchanges out there do the same.

That means that if one trader buys 2 BTC/USD contracts, counterparty is ICBIT, and it is also counterparty to those traders who sold these 2 contracts!

Graphically:

Trader 1 Trader 4
Trader 2 <==> ICBIT <==> Trader 5
Trader 3 Trader 6

Now, the most important fact: Sum of all money paid by loosing users equals to sum of all money paid to profiting users!

And when any user from loosing side goes bankrupt, central counterparty (aka exchange) has to pay its own money. We do that, but we can't do that all the time, and we can't guarantee it happens all the time, so that's why we say that we guarantee to pay as much, as loosing traders are able to pay.

Again, that's absolutely same to how fiat-money "real-world" exchanges work. They have reserve funds, and they often go bankrupt (lookup recent Hong Kong's derivatives market bankrupcy, for example).

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]]

No, Fireball, ''you'' misunderstand how exchanges work, and you do not appear to understand what [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_risk#Counterparty_risk Counterparty Risk] is. Being a central counterparty is much more then simply being a central intermediary. Your diagram shows a central ''intermediary,'' not a central counterparty.

Here, since you like pictures:

Trader 1 Trader 4
Trader 2 <==> Intermediary <==> Trader 5
Trader 3 Trader 6

You write "and when any user from loosing side goes bankrupt, central counterparty (aka exchange) has to pay its own money. We do that, but we can't do that all the time, and we can't guarantee it happens '''all the time'''" -- then you are not a central counterparty '''all the time'''. It's just that simple. When you're ready to do that all the time like COMEX and Nasdaq do, '''all the time''' with a pledge of the assets and equity of the exchange itself to fulfill any default like COMEX and Nasdaq do, then announce it publicly and you'll be an exchange (at least in that essential respect). Until then stop posting factually incorrect information on the wiki.

Here's the problem:

Trader 1 defaults ======> ICBIT unable to collect ======> Trader 4 is told "you lose"

This means that ''Trader 1'' was the counterparty, not ICBIT.

If I buy a call option from on Nasdaq and it is cleared against an uncovered sell order by Bob Jones of Louisiana, I am not exposed to Bob Jones' bankruptcy even though selling uncovered calls has unlimited risk. Nasdaq will make good on the option '''all the time''', and if it doesn't Nasdaq itself is in default. This is the one and only reason why I don't care (and in fact don't know) who the hell Bob Jones is.

If I buy a COMEX contract for December delivery of gold and it is cleared against a sell order by Karl Marx of Zimbabwe, I am not exposed to Karl Marx's bankruptcy. COMEX will make delivery of the gold '''all the time''', and if it doesn't COMEX itself is in default. This is the one and only reason why I don't care (and in fact don't know) who the hell Karl Marx is.

Note that this is in stark contrast, to, say, credit default swaps which are not centrally cleared. And, in fact, note that there is no credit default swap exchange since CDS don't have a central counterparty. A CDS is always a direct transaction between two parties; the identity of the other party is always known and in fact ''who'' the counterparty is has a massive effect on the value of the CDS.

Stop vandalizing the page with your marketing propaganda.

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 23:10, 13 August 2013 (GMT)

Your last three paragraphs are absolutely correct, and it happens same way on ICBIT! That is what I am trying to explain you for weeks.
We do NOT bind futures contracts directly - e.g. you bought 1 contract from Friedrich Engels of South Africa, he went bankrupt and you did not get the money, and everyone else got their profit because they were lucky to make a deal with Karl Marx instead, who is more credible.

So when you trade at ICBIT, you also do not care who the Karl Marx is. In ICBIT, your futures transaction 2nd party is always exchange (when you buy someone's order, there will be at least 2 transactions 1 buy and 1 sell, both of them will have same 2nd party - the exchange).

Now take the example with COMEX and gold. It will make delivery of gold (same way as ICBIT delivers profit for contracts, pledging its own assets) and non-paying Karl Marx will be sued by banks/brokers, government enforcement agency will sell his car and house to cover losses.
ICBIT allows anonymous trades, so to prevent default we have to employ various risk reducing strategies, however theoretically (what I am trying to get you to understand again!) COMEX can easily go default, ICBIT can easily go default and Hong Kong's exchange already went default (even though it was/is an exchange, not some gambling house).
In that case, as it's explained on our webpage, we just pay as much as possible, close as much traders position as it's necessary and then traders are free to reopen them. This is because traders are anonymous, though we do reserve the right to pursue debtors.

Is this finally clear, and could *you* please stop vandalizing the page? I see that you are not new to finances, however if you want to redefine what exchange is, what counterparty is - please go to Wikipedia instead. I'm not for marketing propoganda, I'm for facts.

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]] ([[User talk:Fireball|talk]]) 11:57, 14 August 2013 (GMT)

> Your last three paragraphs are absolutely correct,

If that is true, point me to ICBIT's publicly-stated commitment that it pledges its own assets and equity to "make delivery of (the relevant asset) all the time, and if it doesn't ICBIT itself is in default" as I wrote in the second-to-last and third-to-last paragraphs. Until then the page stays the way it was. Don't revert it again. "We just pay as much as possible" is vague and useless; what matters is whether the exchange pledges its own assets and equity.

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 07:04, 15 August 2013 (GMT)

> The reference was and is there (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414), on the wiki page itself, which lets user read the original thread and make his opinion. So exchange does pledge the assets, and hence I restored the webpage.

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]] ([[User talk:Fireball|talk]]) 23:31, 15 August 2013 (GMT)

> The reference was and is there (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414), on the wiki page itself, which lets user read the original thread and make his opinion. So exchange does pledge the assets,

What? You're not making any sense. That forum posting does not address the issue here.

> and hence I restored the webpage.

I have reported your repeated unconstructive edits to the wiki administrators.

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 02:26, 16 August 2013 (GMT)

If you are not able to understand what's written there, it's your problem, not a problem of users visiting this page. Your actions are harming the community. Look around, the only scam reports are from you and another guy who lost money trading and now blackmails me asking for 1/4 of "his" money to be back in exchange for not spamming this page and forums. Get out of your small world and look around, again. Do you want Bitcoin to succeed? Or you want to kill it, one by one? We really run an honest service for more than 2 years. We contribute to the Bitcoin economy. We work on it every day and every hour. Don't spoil the fun. Hopefully, it's my last message to you.

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]] ([[User talk:Fireball|talk]]) 13:52, 24 August 2013 (GMT)

I haven't posted anything about scam reports; I just revert your unjustified deletions. You are seriously confused. Take your nonsense elsewhere. Here's an idea: if you don't like the part about scam reports, how about '''removing only that part''' instead of huge chunks of unrelated text? Yeah, I know, that would be way too easy...

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 02:40, 25 August 2013 (GMT)

If you can find time for reverts, you could find time for editing, not just reverting. Anyway, I reverted it to the good version, BUT added a text that YOU dispute that ICBIT is not the central counterparty for all trades. And referenced this page so that anyone interested could read through this page and get their own impression.
Because it's YOUR impression, and it must not be forced to EVERYONE reading the page. Readers should get their own impression. And wikipage must state facts, not a biased opinion of some stranger.
The version of text now is as precise as it is. Your description is not correct because you mislead customers into thinking that they trade futures with each other, when in fact they are trading with the exchange (it's a simple fact that I am one of those people who built this exchange from the ground up, and thus I know its internals much better than you do)

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]] ([[User talk:Fireball|talk]]) 12:38, 25 August 2013 (GMT)

You work for ICBIT. I have no stake in its success or failure, nor am I in any way involved with any of its competitors or alternatives.

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 12:45, 25 August 2013 (GMT)

So why the hell did you revert proper version of the text, mentioning your dispute? I think you don't notice this line.

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]] ([[User talk:Fireball|talk]]) 13:14, 25 August 2013 (GMT)

I see that you have made your policy ''even more self-contradictory'' than it was before.

Look, I've grown very tired of re-explaining what a counterparty is to you, but I'll mention one last thing. It seems like you're attempting in vain to come up with some policy that lets you force-close adequately-margined positions and still claim that you are the counterparty. This is totally impossible. If you're force-closing adequately-margined positions, the price used to force closure is not a market-determined price! You're shutting down the market (and perhaps letting it restart, but that's irrelevant) so whatever price you use to force-close is of your own choosing. You've robbed the asset holder of the ability to hold-to-maturity and take delivery. You might think the price you're offering them is fair compensation, but that's beside the point. Without the option to hold-to-maturity there is no way to determine the fair price.

I know you really really really want there to be some magical way you can be an exchange and still retain the ability to force-close the positions of people who have adequate margin because other people (their COUNTERPARTIES) no longer have adequate margin. There is no such magic. So make your choice -- either pledge the exchange's assets+equity to back positions taken (not just whatever part of the position you claim to be "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)") or stop calling yourself an exchange. Putting your business itself on the hook, financially, for the full extent of all positions taken is the only way you can be trusted to run a sufficiently careful margin system, since you are the one exposed for failure to police margins. Reserving the right to dump that risk on your customers whenever you screwed up… well, you can do whatever you want, but there's a damn good reason why no real exchange does this.

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 09:28, 26 August 2013 (GMT)

Here is a [http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/corpgov/2011/07/17/an-introduction-to-the-us-cleared-swap-infrastructure/ really great article] explaining what central counterparty clearing is. It's being required for swaps markets in the USA starting in a few days, so seeing the sorts of changes that come with it give a good idea of what it entails. Most important part:

<blockquote>
Guaranty of financial obligations. A DCO guaranties the financial integrity of all transactions that it has accepted. In the event that a clearing member’s customer defaults on its obligation to answer margin calls, it is the duty of that clearing member to satisfy its customer’s obligation, with a DCO satisfying any part of the default that exceeds the clearing member’s resources.
</blockquote>

This is the essence of central counterparty clearing, and it's basically what the exchange gets paid to do. This stuff is 100% routine for all financial markets except swaps, and that's being changed as we speak.

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 07:07, 28 September 2013 (GMT)

Sorry Eldentyrell, you can't accept anything except your own vision. You can't even accept an unbiased, correct third-party explanation... I'm sorry about you. I guess you need to find some other place in the world which lives according to your vision.
[[User:Fireball|Fireball]]

Fireball, [https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/ICBIT#cite_note-0 what you call an "unbiased correct third-party explanation"] actually agrees with me, writing "ICBIT it is not acting as a clearing house, nor is it the counterparty to the futures trades it brokers. There is no clearing house guarantee, and counterparty risk remains largely unknown.". So what are you talking about? Apparently you emailed whoever writes that blog with a rebuttal; the blogger posted your rebuttal and then '''you quoted the blogger quoting your rebuttal'''. What planet are you from where quoting yourself is considered a third-party explanation? [[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 23:54, 28 September 2013 (GMT)

== Fireball, wanting money back that was taken through dishonest practices is not blackmail. ==

If you are comfortable with the practices you engage in on your website, why don't you address some of the accusations that have been made against you and your site?

1) Prices are blatantly manipulated through last clearing. The site encourages this, apparently because one or more site owners profit from it. A person expects prices to derive from movements in bitcoin, not overt manipulations. I have provided screenshots on the linked post below.

2) People running the site use their access to client financial information to conduct trades running positions against those clients.

For other observations refer to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845 which you have so far refused to even respond to.

If you want to defend your practices either here or on the forum Fireball, please do so.

No serious trader will stay on your site when they see the kinds of things you do. You are not running an honest financial exchange, you are running a scam built on keeping your clients in the dark about how you operate.

I have made and lost a lot of money on financial exchanges in the last 30+ years and I have never in my life made any sort of complaint against any exchange until yours.

[[User:FleaSpirit|FleaSpirit]] ([[User talk:FleaSpirit|talk]]) 16:41, 26 August 2013 (GMT)FleaSpirit

=== The only solution ===

Fireball, any time you want to end this nonsense, all you have to do is man up and admit you have made serious mistakes in running your site and those mistakes need to be fixed.

Make things right then build a proper futures site or shut down.

Your choice.

[[User:FleaSpirit|FleaSpirit]] ([[User talk:FleaSpirit|talk]]) 19:22, 29 September 2013 (GMT)FleaSpirit

Talk:ICBIT

2013-09-29T19:25:04Z

FleaSpirit: /* Fireball, wanting money back that was taken through dishonest practices is not blackmail. */

There are at least two different edit disputes on this page. Please try to put your comments in the appropriate section and please try to deal with only one of these disputes in each of your edits. Thanks. [[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 23:20, 26 August 2013 (GMT)

__FORCETOC__

== Whether ICBIT is an Exchange providing full Central Counterparty backing ==

Please stop deleting material from this page. For a very long time ICBIT's webpage clearly explained that it was not a central counterparty. Now it's been changed to something absurdly self-contradictory that essentially says "we call ourselves a central counterparty but we aren't one and we explicitly deny the responsibilities that define the role of a central counterparty". The whole point of having a futures exchange is that you're exposed to credit risk from only one party and you know who that party is (the exchange). ICBIT is not doing that. If they decide to do that and say so publicly, then feel free to change this page, but unless/until then please stop deleting important facts. [[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 16:04, 13 August 2013 (GMT)

First of all, finally thank you for taking this into Discussion page. The thing is that you seem to misunderstand how exchanges work. Indeed, ICBIT acts as a counterparty to all futures contracts trades happening, and all major fiat money futures exchanges out there do the same.

That means that if one trader buys 2 BTC/USD contracts, counterparty is ICBIT, and it is also counterparty to those traders who sold these 2 contracts!

Graphically:

Trader 1 Trader 4
Trader 2 <==> ICBIT <==> Trader 5
Trader 3 Trader 6

Now, the most important fact: Sum of all money paid by loosing users equals to sum of all money paid to profiting users!

And when any user from loosing side goes bankrupt, central counterparty (aka exchange) has to pay its own money. We do that, but we can't do that all the time, and we can't guarantee it happens all the time, so that's why we say that we guarantee to pay as much, as loosing traders are able to pay.

Again, that's absolutely same to how fiat-money "real-world" exchanges work. They have reserve funds, and they often go bankrupt (lookup recent Hong Kong's derivatives market bankrupcy, for example).

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]]

No, Fireball, ''you'' misunderstand how exchanges work, and you do not appear to understand what [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_risk#Counterparty_risk Counterparty Risk] is. Being a central counterparty is much more then simply being a central intermediary. Your diagram shows a central ''intermediary,'' not a central counterparty.

Here, since you like pictures:

Trader 1 Trader 4
Trader 2 <==> Intermediary <==> Trader 5
Trader 3 Trader 6

You write "and when any user from loosing side goes bankrupt, central counterparty (aka exchange) has to pay its own money. We do that, but we can't do that all the time, and we can't guarantee it happens '''all the time'''" -- then you are not a central counterparty '''all the time'''. It's just that simple. When you're ready to do that all the time like COMEX and Nasdaq do, '''all the time''' with a pledge of the assets and equity of the exchange itself to fulfill any default like COMEX and Nasdaq do, then announce it publicly and you'll be an exchange (at least in that essential respect). Until then stop posting factually incorrect information on the wiki.

Here's the problem:

Trader 1 defaults ======> ICBIT unable to collect ======> Trader 4 is told "you lose"

This means that ''Trader 1'' was the counterparty, not ICBIT.

If I buy a call option from on Nasdaq and it is cleared against an uncovered sell order by Bob Jones of Louisiana, I am not exposed to Bob Jones' bankruptcy even though selling uncovered calls has unlimited risk. Nasdaq will make good on the option '''all the time''', and if it doesn't Nasdaq itself is in default. This is the one and only reason why I don't care (and in fact don't know) who the hell Bob Jones is.

If I buy a COMEX contract for December delivery of gold and it is cleared against a sell order by Karl Marx of Zimbabwe, I am not exposed to Karl Marx's bankruptcy. COMEX will make delivery of the gold '''all the time''', and if it doesn't COMEX itself is in default. This is the one and only reason why I don't care (and in fact don't know) who the hell Karl Marx is.

Note that this is in stark contrast, to, say, credit default swaps which are not centrally cleared. And, in fact, note that there is no credit default swap exchange since CDS don't have a central counterparty. A CDS is always a direct transaction between two parties; the identity of the other party is always known and in fact ''who'' the counterparty is has a massive effect on the value of the CDS.

Stop vandalizing the page with your marketing propaganda.

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 23:10, 13 August 2013 (GMT)

Your last three paragraphs are absolutely correct, and it happens same way on ICBIT! That is what I am trying to explain you for weeks.
We do NOT bind futures contracts directly - e.g. you bought 1 contract from Friedrich Engels of South Africa, he went bankrupt and you did not get the money, and everyone else got their profit because they were lucky to make a deal with Karl Marx instead, who is more credible.

So when you trade at ICBIT, you also do not care who the Karl Marx is. In ICBIT, your futures transaction 2nd party is always exchange (when you buy someone's order, there will be at least 2 transactions 1 buy and 1 sell, both of them will have same 2nd party - the exchange).

Now take the example with COMEX and gold. It will make delivery of gold (same way as ICBIT delivers profit for contracts, pledging its own assets) and non-paying Karl Marx will be sued by banks/brokers, government enforcement agency will sell his car and house to cover losses.
ICBIT allows anonymous trades, so to prevent default we have to employ various risk reducing strategies, however theoretically (what I am trying to get you to understand again!) COMEX can easily go default, ICBIT can easily go default and Hong Kong's exchange already went default (even though it was/is an exchange, not some gambling house).
In that case, as it's explained on our webpage, we just pay as much as possible, close as much traders position as it's necessary and then traders are free to reopen them. This is because traders are anonymous, though we do reserve the right to pursue debtors.

Is this finally clear, and could *you* please stop vandalizing the page? I see that you are not new to finances, however if you want to redefine what exchange is, what counterparty is - please go to Wikipedia instead. I'm not for marketing propoganda, I'm for facts.

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]] ([[User talk:Fireball|talk]]) 11:57, 14 August 2013 (GMT)

> Your last three paragraphs are absolutely correct,

If that is true, point me to ICBIT's publicly-stated commitment that it pledges its own assets and equity to "make delivery of (the relevant asset) all the time, and if it doesn't ICBIT itself is in default" as I wrote in the second-to-last and third-to-last paragraphs. Until then the page stays the way it was. Don't revert it again. "We just pay as much as possible" is vague and useless; what matters is whether the exchange pledges its own assets and equity.

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 07:04, 15 August 2013 (GMT)

> The reference was and is there (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414), on the wiki page itself, which lets user read the original thread and make his opinion. So exchange does pledge the assets, and hence I restored the webpage.

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]] ([[User talk:Fireball|talk]]) 23:31, 15 August 2013 (GMT)

> The reference was and is there (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414), on the wiki page itself, which lets user read the original thread and make his opinion. So exchange does pledge the assets,

What? You're not making any sense. That forum posting does not address the issue here.

> and hence I restored the webpage.

I have reported your repeated unconstructive edits to the wiki administrators.

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 02:26, 16 August 2013 (GMT)

If you are not able to understand what's written there, it's your problem, not a problem of users visiting this page. Your actions are harming the community. Look around, the only scam reports are from you and another guy who lost money trading and now blackmails me asking for 1/4 of "his" money to be back in exchange for not spamming this page and forums. Get out of your small world and look around, again. Do you want Bitcoin to succeed? Or you want to kill it, one by one? We really run an honest service for more than 2 years. We contribute to the Bitcoin economy. We work on it every day and every hour. Don't spoil the fun. Hopefully, it's my last message to you.

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]] ([[User talk:Fireball|talk]]) 13:52, 24 August 2013 (GMT)

I haven't posted anything about scam reports; I just revert your unjustified deletions. You are seriously confused. Take your nonsense elsewhere. Here's an idea: if you don't like the part about scam reports, how about '''removing only that part''' instead of huge chunks of unrelated text? Yeah, I know, that would be way too easy...

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 02:40, 25 August 2013 (GMT)

If you can find time for reverts, you could find time for editing, not just reverting. Anyway, I reverted it to the good version, BUT added a text that YOU dispute that ICBIT is not the central counterparty for all trades. And referenced this page so that anyone interested could read through this page and get their own impression.
Because it's YOUR impression, and it must not be forced to EVERYONE reading the page. Readers should get their own impression. And wikipage must state facts, not a biased opinion of some stranger.
The version of text now is as precise as it is. Your description is not correct because you mislead customers into thinking that they trade futures with each other, when in fact they are trading with the exchange (it's a simple fact that I am one of those people who built this exchange from the ground up, and thus I know its internals much better than you do)

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]] ([[User talk:Fireball|talk]]) 12:38, 25 August 2013 (GMT)

You work for ICBIT. I have no stake in its success or failure, nor am I in any way involved with any of its competitors or alternatives.

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 12:45, 25 August 2013 (GMT)

So why the hell did you revert proper version of the text, mentioning your dispute? I think you don't notice this line.

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]] ([[User talk:Fireball|talk]]) 13:14, 25 August 2013 (GMT)

I see that you have made your policy ''even more self-contradictory'' than it was before.

Look, I've grown very tired of re-explaining what a counterparty is to you, but I'll mention one last thing. It seems like you're attempting in vain to come up with some policy that lets you force-close adequately-margined positions and still claim that you are the counterparty. This is totally impossible. If you're force-closing adequately-margined positions, the price used to force closure is not a market-determined price! You're shutting down the market (and perhaps letting it restart, but that's irrelevant) so whatever price you use to force-close is of your own choosing. You've robbed the asset holder of the ability to hold-to-maturity and take delivery. You might think the price you're offering them is fair compensation, but that's beside the point. Without the option to hold-to-maturity there is no way to determine the fair price.

I know you really really really want there to be some magical way you can be an exchange and still retain the ability to force-close the positions of people who have adequate margin because other people (their COUNTERPARTIES) no longer have adequate margin. There is no such magic. So make your choice -- either pledge the exchange's assets+equity to back positions taken (not just whatever part of the position you claim to be "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)") or stop calling yourself an exchange. Putting your business itself on the hook, financially, for the full extent of all positions taken is the only way you can be trusted to run a sufficiently careful margin system, since you are the one exposed for failure to police margins. Reserving the right to dump that risk on your customers whenever you screwed up… well, you can do whatever you want, but there's a damn good reason why no real exchange does this.

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 09:28, 26 August 2013 (GMT)

Here is a [http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/corpgov/2011/07/17/an-introduction-to-the-us-cleared-swap-infrastructure/ really great article] explaining what central counterparty clearing is. It's being required for swaps markets in the USA starting in a few days, so seeing the sorts of changes that come with it give a good idea of what it entails. Most important part:

<blockquote>
Guaranty of financial obligations. A DCO guaranties the financial integrity of all transactions that it has accepted. In the event that a clearing member’s customer defaults on its obligation to answer margin calls, it is the duty of that clearing member to satisfy its customer’s obligation, with a DCO satisfying any part of the default that exceeds the clearing member’s resources.
</blockquote>

This is the essence of central counterparty clearing, and it's basically what the exchange gets paid to do. This stuff is 100% routine for all financial markets except swaps, and that's being changed as we speak.

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 07:07, 28 September 2013 (GMT)

Sorry Eldentyrell, you can't accept anything except your own vision. You can't even accept an unbiased, correct third-party explanation... I'm sorry about you. I guess you need to find some other place in the world which lives according to your vision.
[[User:Fireball|Fireball]]

Fireball, [https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/ICBIT#cite_note-0 what you call an "unbiased correct third-party explanation"] actually agrees with me, writing "ICBIT it is not acting as a clearing house, nor is it the counterparty to the futures trades it brokers. There is no clearing house guarantee, and counterparty risk remains largely unknown.". So what are you talking about? Apparently you emailed whoever writes that blog with a rebuttal; the blogger posted your rebuttal and then '''you quoted the blogger quoting your rebuttal'''. What planet are you from where quoting yourself is considered a third-party explanation? [[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 23:54, 28 September 2013 (GMT)

== The only solution ==

Fireball, any time you want to end this nonsense, all you have to do is man up and admit you have made serious mistakes in running your site and those mistakes need to be fixed.

Make things right then build a proper futures site or shut down.

Your choice.

[[User:FleaSpirit|FleaSpirit]] ([[User talk:FleaSpirit|talk]]) 19:22, 29 September 2013 (GMT)FleaSpirit

Talk:ICBIT

2013-09-29T19:24:40Z

FleaSpirit: /* The only solution */

There are at least two different edit disputes on this page. Please try to put your comments in the appropriate section and please try to deal with only one of these disputes in each of your edits. Thanks. [[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 23:20, 26 August 2013 (GMT)

__FORCETOC__

== Whether ICBIT is an Exchange providing full Central Counterparty backing ==

Please stop deleting material from this page. For a very long time ICBIT's webpage clearly explained that it was not a central counterparty. Now it's been changed to something absurdly self-contradictory that essentially says "we call ourselves a central counterparty but we aren't one and we explicitly deny the responsibilities that define the role of a central counterparty". The whole point of having a futures exchange is that you're exposed to credit risk from only one party and you know who that party is (the exchange). ICBIT is not doing that. If they decide to do that and say so publicly, then feel free to change this page, but unless/until then please stop deleting important facts. [[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 16:04, 13 August 2013 (GMT)

First of all, finally thank you for taking this into Discussion page. The thing is that you seem to misunderstand how exchanges work. Indeed, ICBIT acts as a counterparty to all futures contracts trades happening, and all major fiat money futures exchanges out there do the same.

That means that if one trader buys 2 BTC/USD contracts, counterparty is ICBIT, and it is also counterparty to those traders who sold these 2 contracts!

Graphically:

Trader 1 Trader 4
Trader 2 <==> ICBIT <==> Trader 5
Trader 3 Trader 6

Now, the most important fact: Sum of all money paid by loosing users equals to sum of all money paid to profiting users!

And when any user from loosing side goes bankrupt, central counterparty (aka exchange) has to pay its own money. We do that, but we can't do that all the time, and we can't guarantee it happens all the time, so that's why we say that we guarantee to pay as much, as loosing traders are able to pay.

Again, that's absolutely same to how fiat-money "real-world" exchanges work. They have reserve funds, and they often go bankrupt (lookup recent Hong Kong's derivatives market bankrupcy, for example).

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]]

No, Fireball, ''you'' misunderstand how exchanges work, and you do not appear to understand what [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_risk#Counterparty_risk Counterparty Risk] is. Being a central counterparty is much more then simply being a central intermediary. Your diagram shows a central ''intermediary,'' not a central counterparty.

Here, since you like pictures:

Trader 1 Trader 4
Trader 2 <==> Intermediary <==> Trader 5
Trader 3 Trader 6

You write "and when any user from loosing side goes bankrupt, central counterparty (aka exchange) has to pay its own money. We do that, but we can't do that all the time, and we can't guarantee it happens '''all the time'''" -- then you are not a central counterparty '''all the time'''. It's just that simple. When you're ready to do that all the time like COMEX and Nasdaq do, '''all the time''' with a pledge of the assets and equity of the exchange itself to fulfill any default like COMEX and Nasdaq do, then announce it publicly and you'll be an exchange (at least in that essential respect). Until then stop posting factually incorrect information on the wiki.

Here's the problem:

Trader 1 defaults ======> ICBIT unable to collect ======> Trader 4 is told "you lose"

This means that ''Trader 1'' was the counterparty, not ICBIT.

If I buy a call option from on Nasdaq and it is cleared against an uncovered sell order by Bob Jones of Louisiana, I am not exposed to Bob Jones' bankruptcy even though selling uncovered calls has unlimited risk. Nasdaq will make good on the option '''all the time''', and if it doesn't Nasdaq itself is in default. This is the one and only reason why I don't care (and in fact don't know) who the hell Bob Jones is.

If I buy a COMEX contract for December delivery of gold and it is cleared against a sell order by Karl Marx of Zimbabwe, I am not exposed to Karl Marx's bankruptcy. COMEX will make delivery of the gold '''all the time''', and if it doesn't COMEX itself is in default. This is the one and only reason why I don't care (and in fact don't know) who the hell Karl Marx is.

Note that this is in stark contrast, to, say, credit default swaps which are not centrally cleared. And, in fact, note that there is no credit default swap exchange since CDS don't have a central counterparty. A CDS is always a direct transaction between two parties; the identity of the other party is always known and in fact ''who'' the counterparty is has a massive effect on the value of the CDS.

Stop vandalizing the page with your marketing propaganda.

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 23:10, 13 August 2013 (GMT)

Your last three paragraphs are absolutely correct, and it happens same way on ICBIT! That is what I am trying to explain you for weeks.
We do NOT bind futures contracts directly - e.g. you bought 1 contract from Friedrich Engels of South Africa, he went bankrupt and you did not get the money, and everyone else got their profit because they were lucky to make a deal with Karl Marx instead, who is more credible.

So when you trade at ICBIT, you also do not care who the Karl Marx is. In ICBIT, your futures transaction 2nd party is always exchange (when you buy someone's order, there will be at least 2 transactions 1 buy and 1 sell, both of them will have same 2nd party - the exchange).

Now take the example with COMEX and gold. It will make delivery of gold (same way as ICBIT delivers profit for contracts, pledging its own assets) and non-paying Karl Marx will be sued by banks/brokers, government enforcement agency will sell his car and house to cover losses.
ICBIT allows anonymous trades, so to prevent default we have to employ various risk reducing strategies, however theoretically (what I am trying to get you to understand again!) COMEX can easily go default, ICBIT can easily go default and Hong Kong's exchange already went default (even though it was/is an exchange, not some gambling house).
In that case, as it's explained on our webpage, we just pay as much as possible, close as much traders position as it's necessary and then traders are free to reopen them. This is because traders are anonymous, though we do reserve the right to pursue debtors.

Is this finally clear, and could *you* please stop vandalizing the page? I see that you are not new to finances, however if you want to redefine what exchange is, what counterparty is - please go to Wikipedia instead. I'm not for marketing propoganda, I'm for facts.

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]] ([[User talk:Fireball|talk]]) 11:57, 14 August 2013 (GMT)

> Your last three paragraphs are absolutely correct,

If that is true, point me to ICBIT's publicly-stated commitment that it pledges its own assets and equity to "make delivery of (the relevant asset) all the time, and if it doesn't ICBIT itself is in default" as I wrote in the second-to-last and third-to-last paragraphs. Until then the page stays the way it was. Don't revert it again. "We just pay as much as possible" is vague and useless; what matters is whether the exchange pledges its own assets and equity.

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 07:04, 15 August 2013 (GMT)

> The reference was and is there (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414), on the wiki page itself, which lets user read the original thread and make his opinion. So exchange does pledge the assets, and hence I restored the webpage.

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]] ([[User talk:Fireball|talk]]) 23:31, 15 August 2013 (GMT)

> The reference was and is there (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414), on the wiki page itself, which lets user read the original thread and make his opinion. So exchange does pledge the assets,

What? You're not making any sense. That forum posting does not address the issue here.

> and hence I restored the webpage.

I have reported your repeated unconstructive edits to the wiki administrators.

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 02:26, 16 August 2013 (GMT)

If you are not able to understand what's written there, it's your problem, not a problem of users visiting this page. Your actions are harming the community. Look around, the only scam reports are from you and another guy who lost money trading and now blackmails me asking for 1/4 of "his" money to be back in exchange for not spamming this page and forums. Get out of your small world and look around, again. Do you want Bitcoin to succeed? Or you want to kill it, one by one? We really run an honest service for more than 2 years. We contribute to the Bitcoin economy. We work on it every day and every hour. Don't spoil the fun. Hopefully, it's my last message to you.

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]] ([[User talk:Fireball|talk]]) 13:52, 24 August 2013 (GMT)

I haven't posted anything about scam reports; I just revert your unjustified deletions. You are seriously confused. Take your nonsense elsewhere. Here's an idea: if you don't like the part about scam reports, how about '''removing only that part''' instead of huge chunks of unrelated text? Yeah, I know, that would be way too easy...

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 02:40, 25 August 2013 (GMT)

If you can find time for reverts, you could find time for editing, not just reverting. Anyway, I reverted it to the good version, BUT added a text that YOU dispute that ICBIT is not the central counterparty for all trades. And referenced this page so that anyone interested could read through this page and get their own impression.
Because it's YOUR impression, and it must not be forced to EVERYONE reading the page. Readers should get their own impression. And wikipage must state facts, not a biased opinion of some stranger.
The version of text now is as precise as it is. Your description is not correct because you mislead customers into thinking that they trade futures with each other, when in fact they are trading with the exchange (it's a simple fact that I am one of those people who built this exchange from the ground up, and thus I know its internals much better than you do)

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]] ([[User talk:Fireball|talk]]) 12:38, 25 August 2013 (GMT)

You work for ICBIT. I have no stake in its success or failure, nor am I in any way involved with any of its competitors or alternatives.

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 12:45, 25 August 2013 (GMT)

So why the hell did you revert proper version of the text, mentioning your dispute? I think you don't notice this line.

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]] ([[User talk:Fireball|talk]]) 13:14, 25 August 2013 (GMT)

I see that you have made your policy ''even more self-contradictory'' than it was before.

Look, I've grown very tired of re-explaining what a counterparty is to you, but I'll mention one last thing. It seems like you're attempting in vain to come up with some policy that lets you force-close adequately-margined positions and still claim that you are the counterparty. This is totally impossible. If you're force-closing adequately-margined positions, the price used to force closure is not a market-determined price! You're shutting down the market (and perhaps letting it restart, but that's irrelevant) so whatever price you use to force-close is of your own choosing. You've robbed the asset holder of the ability to hold-to-maturity and take delivery. You might think the price you're offering them is fair compensation, but that's beside the point. Without the option to hold-to-maturity there is no way to determine the fair price.

I know you really really really want there to be some magical way you can be an exchange and still retain the ability to force-close the positions of people who have adequate margin because other people (their COUNTERPARTIES) no longer have adequate margin. There is no such magic. So make your choice -- either pledge the exchange's assets+equity to back positions taken (not just whatever part of the position you claim to be "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)") or stop calling yourself an exchange. Putting your business itself on the hook, financially, for the full extent of all positions taken is the only way you can be trusted to run a sufficiently careful margin system, since you are the one exposed for failure to police margins. Reserving the right to dump that risk on your customers whenever you screwed up… well, you can do whatever you want, but there's a damn good reason why no real exchange does this.

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 09:28, 26 August 2013 (GMT)

Here is a [http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/corpgov/2011/07/17/an-introduction-to-the-us-cleared-swap-infrastructure/ really great article] explaining what central counterparty clearing is. It's being required for swaps markets in the USA starting in a few days, so seeing the sorts of changes that come with it give a good idea of what it entails. Most important part:

<blockquote>
Guaranty of financial obligations. A DCO guaranties the financial integrity of all transactions that it has accepted. In the event that a clearing member’s customer defaults on its obligation to answer margin calls, it is the duty of that clearing member to satisfy its customer’s obligation, with a DCO satisfying any part of the default that exceeds the clearing member’s resources.
</blockquote>

This is the essence of central counterparty clearing, and it's basically what the exchange gets paid to do. This stuff is 100% routine for all financial markets except swaps, and that's being changed as we speak.

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 07:07, 28 September 2013 (GMT)

Sorry Eldentyrell, you can't accept anything except your own vision. You can't even accept an unbiased, correct third-party explanation... I'm sorry about you. I guess you need to find some other place in the world which lives according to your vision.
[[User:Fireball|Fireball]]

Fireball, [https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/ICBIT#cite_note-0 what you call an "unbiased correct third-party explanation"] actually agrees with me, writing "ICBIT it is not acting as a clearing house, nor is it the counterparty to the futures trades it brokers. There is no clearing house guarantee, and counterparty risk remains largely unknown.". So what are you talking about? Apparently you emailed whoever writes that blog with a rebuttal; the blogger posted your rebuttal and then '''you quoted the blogger quoting your rebuttal'''. What planet are you from where quoting yourself is considered a third-party explanation? [[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 23:54, 28 September 2013 (GMT)

=== Fireball, wanting money back that was taken through dishonest practices is not blackmail. ===

If you are comfortable with the practices you engage in on your website, why don't you address some of the accusations that have been made against you and your site?

1) Prices are blatantly manipulated through last clearing. The site encourages this, apparently because one or more site owners profit from it. A person expects prices to derive from movements in bitcoin, not overt manipulations. I have provided screenshots on the linked post below.

2) People running the site use their access to client financial information to conduct trades running positions against those clients.

For other observations refer to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845 which you have so far refused to even respond to.

If you want to defend your practices either here or on the forum Fireball, please do so.

No serious trader will stay on your site when they see the kinds of things you do. You are not running an honest financial exchange, you are running a scam built on keeping your clients in the dark about how you operate.

I have made and lost a lot of money on financial exchanges in the last 30+ years and I have never in my life made any sort of complaint against any exchange until yours.

[[User:FleaSpirit|FleaSpirit]] ([[User talk:FleaSpirit|talk]]) 16:41, 26 August 2013 (GMT)FleaSpirit

== The only solution ==

Fireball, any time you want to end this nonsense, all you have to do is man up and admit you have made serious mistakes in running your site and those mistakes need to be fixed.

Make things right then build a proper futures site or shut down.

Your choice.

[[User:FleaSpirit|FleaSpirit]] ([[User talk:FleaSpirit|talk]]) 19:22, 29 September 2013 (GMT)FleaSpirit

Talk:ICBIT

2013-09-29T19:23:55Z

FleaSpirit: /* Fireball, wanting money back that was taken through dishonest practices is not blackmail. */

There are at least two different edit disputes on this page. Please try to put your comments in the appropriate section and please try to deal with only one of these disputes in each of your edits. Thanks. [[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 23:20, 26 August 2013 (GMT)

__FORCETOC__

== Whether ICBIT is an Exchange providing full Central Counterparty backing ==

Please stop deleting material from this page. For a very long time ICBIT's webpage clearly explained that it was not a central counterparty. Now it's been changed to something absurdly self-contradictory that essentially says "we call ourselves a central counterparty but we aren't one and we explicitly deny the responsibilities that define the role of a central counterparty". The whole point of having a futures exchange is that you're exposed to credit risk from only one party and you know who that party is (the exchange). ICBIT is not doing that. If they decide to do that and say so publicly, then feel free to change this page, but unless/until then please stop deleting important facts. [[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 16:04, 13 August 2013 (GMT)

First of all, finally thank you for taking this into Discussion page. The thing is that you seem to misunderstand how exchanges work. Indeed, ICBIT acts as a counterparty to all futures contracts trades happening, and all major fiat money futures exchanges out there do the same.

That means that if one trader buys 2 BTC/USD contracts, counterparty is ICBIT, and it is also counterparty to those traders who sold these 2 contracts!

Graphically:

Trader 1 Trader 4
Trader 2 <==> ICBIT <==> Trader 5
Trader 3 Trader 6

Now, the most important fact: Sum of all money paid by loosing users equals to sum of all money paid to profiting users!

And when any user from loosing side goes bankrupt, central counterparty (aka exchange) has to pay its own money. We do that, but we can't do that all the time, and we can't guarantee it happens all the time, so that's why we say that we guarantee to pay as much, as loosing traders are able to pay.

Again, that's absolutely same to how fiat-money "real-world" exchanges work. They have reserve funds, and they often go bankrupt (lookup recent Hong Kong's derivatives market bankrupcy, for example).

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]]

No, Fireball, ''you'' misunderstand how exchanges work, and you do not appear to understand what [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_risk#Counterparty_risk Counterparty Risk] is. Being a central counterparty is much more then simply being a central intermediary. Your diagram shows a central ''intermediary,'' not a central counterparty.

Here, since you like pictures:

Trader 1 Trader 4
Trader 2 <==> Intermediary <==> Trader 5
Trader 3 Trader 6

You write "and when any user from loosing side goes bankrupt, central counterparty (aka exchange) has to pay its own money. We do that, but we can't do that all the time, and we can't guarantee it happens '''all the time'''" -- then you are not a central counterparty '''all the time'''. It's just that simple. When you're ready to do that all the time like COMEX and Nasdaq do, '''all the time''' with a pledge of the assets and equity of the exchange itself to fulfill any default like COMEX and Nasdaq do, then announce it publicly and you'll be an exchange (at least in that essential respect). Until then stop posting factually incorrect information on the wiki.

Here's the problem:

Trader 1 defaults ======> ICBIT unable to collect ======> Trader 4 is told "you lose"

This means that ''Trader 1'' was the counterparty, not ICBIT.

If I buy a call option from on Nasdaq and it is cleared against an uncovered sell order by Bob Jones of Louisiana, I am not exposed to Bob Jones' bankruptcy even though selling uncovered calls has unlimited risk. Nasdaq will make good on the option '''all the time''', and if it doesn't Nasdaq itself is in default. This is the one and only reason why I don't care (and in fact don't know) who the hell Bob Jones is.

If I buy a COMEX contract for December delivery of gold and it is cleared against a sell order by Karl Marx of Zimbabwe, I am not exposed to Karl Marx's bankruptcy. COMEX will make delivery of the gold '''all the time''', and if it doesn't COMEX itself is in default. This is the one and only reason why I don't care (and in fact don't know) who the hell Karl Marx is.

Note that this is in stark contrast, to, say, credit default swaps which are not centrally cleared. And, in fact, note that there is no credit default swap exchange since CDS don't have a central counterparty. A CDS is always a direct transaction between two parties; the identity of the other party is always known and in fact ''who'' the counterparty is has a massive effect on the value of the CDS.

Stop vandalizing the page with your marketing propaganda.

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 23:10, 13 August 2013 (GMT)

Your last three paragraphs are absolutely correct, and it happens same way on ICBIT! That is what I am trying to explain you for weeks.
We do NOT bind futures contracts directly - e.g. you bought 1 contract from Friedrich Engels of South Africa, he went bankrupt and you did not get the money, and everyone else got their profit because they were lucky to make a deal with Karl Marx instead, who is more credible.

So when you trade at ICBIT, you also do not care who the Karl Marx is. In ICBIT, your futures transaction 2nd party is always exchange (when you buy someone's order, there will be at least 2 transactions 1 buy and 1 sell, both of them will have same 2nd party - the exchange).

Now take the example with COMEX and gold. It will make delivery of gold (same way as ICBIT delivers profit for contracts, pledging its own assets) and non-paying Karl Marx will be sued by banks/brokers, government enforcement agency will sell his car and house to cover losses.
ICBIT allows anonymous trades, so to prevent default we have to employ various risk reducing strategies, however theoretically (what I am trying to get you to understand again!) COMEX can easily go default, ICBIT can easily go default and Hong Kong's exchange already went default (even though it was/is an exchange, not some gambling house).
In that case, as it's explained on our webpage, we just pay as much as possible, close as much traders position as it's necessary and then traders are free to reopen them. This is because traders are anonymous, though we do reserve the right to pursue debtors.

Is this finally clear, and could *you* please stop vandalizing the page? I see that you are not new to finances, however if you want to redefine what exchange is, what counterparty is - please go to Wikipedia instead. I'm not for marketing propoganda, I'm for facts.

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]] ([[User talk:Fireball|talk]]) 11:57, 14 August 2013 (GMT)

> Your last three paragraphs are absolutely correct,

If that is true, point me to ICBIT's publicly-stated commitment that it pledges its own assets and equity to "make delivery of (the relevant asset) all the time, and if it doesn't ICBIT itself is in default" as I wrote in the second-to-last and third-to-last paragraphs. Until then the page stays the way it was. Don't revert it again. "We just pay as much as possible" is vague and useless; what matters is whether the exchange pledges its own assets and equity.

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 07:04, 15 August 2013 (GMT)

> The reference was and is there (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414), on the wiki page itself, which lets user read the original thread and make his opinion. So exchange does pledge the assets, and hence I restored the webpage.

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]] ([[User talk:Fireball|talk]]) 23:31, 15 August 2013 (GMT)

> The reference was and is there (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414), on the wiki page itself, which lets user read the original thread and make his opinion. So exchange does pledge the assets,

What? You're not making any sense. That forum posting does not address the issue here.

> and hence I restored the webpage.

I have reported your repeated unconstructive edits to the wiki administrators.

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 02:26, 16 August 2013 (GMT)

If you are not able to understand what's written there, it's your problem, not a problem of users visiting this page. Your actions are harming the community. Look around, the only scam reports are from you and another guy who lost money trading and now blackmails me asking for 1/4 of "his" money to be back in exchange for not spamming this page and forums. Get out of your small world and look around, again. Do you want Bitcoin to succeed? Or you want to kill it, one by one? We really run an honest service for more than 2 years. We contribute to the Bitcoin economy. We work on it every day and every hour. Don't spoil the fun. Hopefully, it's my last message to you.

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]] ([[User talk:Fireball|talk]]) 13:52, 24 August 2013 (GMT)

I haven't posted anything about scam reports; I just revert your unjustified deletions. You are seriously confused. Take your nonsense elsewhere. Here's an idea: if you don't like the part about scam reports, how about '''removing only that part''' instead of huge chunks of unrelated text? Yeah, I know, that would be way too easy...

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 02:40, 25 August 2013 (GMT)

If you can find time for reverts, you could find time for editing, not just reverting. Anyway, I reverted it to the good version, BUT added a text that YOU dispute that ICBIT is not the central counterparty for all trades. And referenced this page so that anyone interested could read through this page and get their own impression.
Because it's YOUR impression, and it must not be forced to EVERYONE reading the page. Readers should get their own impression. And wikipage must state facts, not a biased opinion of some stranger.
The version of text now is as precise as it is. Your description is not correct because you mislead customers into thinking that they trade futures with each other, when in fact they are trading with the exchange (it's a simple fact that I am one of those people who built this exchange from the ground up, and thus I know its internals much better than you do)

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]] ([[User talk:Fireball|talk]]) 12:38, 25 August 2013 (GMT)

You work for ICBIT. I have no stake in its success or failure, nor am I in any way involved with any of its competitors or alternatives.

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 12:45, 25 August 2013 (GMT)

So why the hell did you revert proper version of the text, mentioning your dispute? I think you don't notice this line.

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]] ([[User talk:Fireball|talk]]) 13:14, 25 August 2013 (GMT)

I see that you have made your policy ''even more self-contradictory'' than it was before.

Look, I've grown very tired of re-explaining what a counterparty is to you, but I'll mention one last thing. It seems like you're attempting in vain to come up with some policy that lets you force-close adequately-margined positions and still claim that you are the counterparty. This is totally impossible. If you're force-closing adequately-margined positions, the price used to force closure is not a market-determined price! You're shutting down the market (and perhaps letting it restart, but that's irrelevant) so whatever price you use to force-close is of your own choosing. You've robbed the asset holder of the ability to hold-to-maturity and take delivery. You might think the price you're offering them is fair compensation, but that's beside the point. Without the option to hold-to-maturity there is no way to determine the fair price.

I know you really really really want there to be some magical way you can be an exchange and still retain the ability to force-close the positions of people who have adequate margin because other people (their COUNTERPARTIES) no longer have adequate margin. There is no such magic. So make your choice -- either pledge the exchange's assets+equity to back positions taken (not just whatever part of the position you claim to be "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)") or stop calling yourself an exchange. Putting your business itself on the hook, financially, for the full extent of all positions taken is the only way you can be trusted to run a sufficiently careful margin system, since you are the one exposed for failure to police margins. Reserving the right to dump that risk on your customers whenever you screwed up… well, you can do whatever you want, but there's a damn good reason why no real exchange does this.

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 09:28, 26 August 2013 (GMT)

Here is a [http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/corpgov/2011/07/17/an-introduction-to-the-us-cleared-swap-infrastructure/ really great article] explaining what central counterparty clearing is. It's being required for swaps markets in the USA starting in a few days, so seeing the sorts of changes that come with it give a good idea of what it entails. Most important part:

<blockquote>
Guaranty of financial obligations. A DCO guaranties the financial integrity of all transactions that it has accepted. In the event that a clearing member’s customer defaults on its obligation to answer margin calls, it is the duty of that clearing member to satisfy its customer’s obligation, with a DCO satisfying any part of the default that exceeds the clearing member’s resources.
</blockquote>

This is the essence of central counterparty clearing, and it's basically what the exchange gets paid to do. This stuff is 100% routine for all financial markets except swaps, and that's being changed as we speak.

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 07:07, 28 September 2013 (GMT)

Sorry Eldentyrell, you can't accept anything except your own vision. You can't even accept an unbiased, correct third-party explanation... I'm sorry about you. I guess you need to find some other place in the world which lives according to your vision.
[[User:Fireball|Fireball]]

Fireball, [https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/ICBIT#cite_note-0 what you call an "unbiased correct third-party explanation"] actually agrees with me, writing "ICBIT it is not acting as a clearing house, nor is it the counterparty to the futures trades it brokers. There is no clearing house guarantee, and counterparty risk remains largely unknown.". So what are you talking about? Apparently you emailed whoever writes that blog with a rebuttal; the blogger posted your rebuttal and then '''you quoted the blogger quoting your rebuttal'''. What planet are you from where quoting yourself is considered a third-party explanation? [[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 23:54, 28 September 2013 (GMT)

== The only solution ==

Fireball, any time you want to end this nonsense, all you have to do is man up and admit you have made serious mistakes in running your site and those mistakes need to be fixed.

Make things right then build a proper futures site or shut down.

Your choice.

[[User:FleaSpirit|FleaSpirit]] ([[User talk:FleaSpirit|talk]]) 19:22, 29 September 2013 (GMT)FleaSpirit

Talk:ICBIT

2013-09-29T19:22:43Z

FleaSpirit: /* The only solution */ new section

There are at least two different edit disputes on this page. Please try to put your comments in the appropriate section and please try to deal with only one of these disputes in each of your edits. Thanks. [[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 23:20, 26 August 2013 (GMT)

__FORCETOC__

== Whether ICBIT is an Exchange providing full Central Counterparty backing ==

Please stop deleting material from this page. For a very long time ICBIT's webpage clearly explained that it was not a central counterparty. Now it's been changed to something absurdly self-contradictory that essentially says "we call ourselves a central counterparty but we aren't one and we explicitly deny the responsibilities that define the role of a central counterparty". The whole point of having a futures exchange is that you're exposed to credit risk from only one party and you know who that party is (the exchange). ICBIT is not doing that. If they decide to do that and say so publicly, then feel free to change this page, but unless/until then please stop deleting important facts. [[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 16:04, 13 August 2013 (GMT)

First of all, finally thank you for taking this into Discussion page. The thing is that you seem to misunderstand how exchanges work. Indeed, ICBIT acts as a counterparty to all futures contracts trades happening, and all major fiat money futures exchanges out there do the same.

That means that if one trader buys 2 BTC/USD contracts, counterparty is ICBIT, and it is also counterparty to those traders who sold these 2 contracts!

Graphically:

Trader 1 Trader 4
Trader 2 <==> ICBIT <==> Trader 5
Trader 3 Trader 6

Now, the most important fact: Sum of all money paid by loosing users equals to sum of all money paid to profiting users!

And when any user from loosing side goes bankrupt, central counterparty (aka exchange) has to pay its own money. We do that, but we can't do that all the time, and we can't guarantee it happens all the time, so that's why we say that we guarantee to pay as much, as loosing traders are able to pay.

Again, that's absolutely same to how fiat-money "real-world" exchanges work. They have reserve funds, and they often go bankrupt (lookup recent Hong Kong's derivatives market bankrupcy, for example).

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]]

No, Fireball, ''you'' misunderstand how exchanges work, and you do not appear to understand what [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_risk#Counterparty_risk Counterparty Risk] is. Being a central counterparty is much more then simply being a central intermediary. Your diagram shows a central ''intermediary,'' not a central counterparty.

Here, since you like pictures:

Trader 1 Trader 4
Trader 2 <==> Intermediary <==> Trader 5
Trader 3 Trader 6

You write "and when any user from loosing side goes bankrupt, central counterparty (aka exchange) has to pay its own money. We do that, but we can't do that all the time, and we can't guarantee it happens '''all the time'''" -- then you are not a central counterparty '''all the time'''. It's just that simple. When you're ready to do that all the time like COMEX and Nasdaq do, '''all the time''' with a pledge of the assets and equity of the exchange itself to fulfill any default like COMEX and Nasdaq do, then announce it publicly and you'll be an exchange (at least in that essential respect). Until then stop posting factually incorrect information on the wiki.

Here's the problem:

Trader 1 defaults ======> ICBIT unable to collect ======> Trader 4 is told "you lose"

This means that ''Trader 1'' was the counterparty, not ICBIT.

If I buy a call option from on Nasdaq and it is cleared against an uncovered sell order by Bob Jones of Louisiana, I am not exposed to Bob Jones' bankruptcy even though selling uncovered calls has unlimited risk. Nasdaq will make good on the option '''all the time''', and if it doesn't Nasdaq itself is in default. This is the one and only reason why I don't care (and in fact don't know) who the hell Bob Jones is.

If I buy a COMEX contract for December delivery of gold and it is cleared against a sell order by Karl Marx of Zimbabwe, I am not exposed to Karl Marx's bankruptcy. COMEX will make delivery of the gold '''all the time''', and if it doesn't COMEX itself is in default. This is the one and only reason why I don't care (and in fact don't know) who the hell Karl Marx is.

Note that this is in stark contrast, to, say, credit default swaps which are not centrally cleared. And, in fact, note that there is no credit default swap exchange since CDS don't have a central counterparty. A CDS is always a direct transaction between two parties; the identity of the other party is always known and in fact ''who'' the counterparty is has a massive effect on the value of the CDS.

Stop vandalizing the page with your marketing propaganda.

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 23:10, 13 August 2013 (GMT)

Your last three paragraphs are absolutely correct, and it happens same way on ICBIT! That is what I am trying to explain you for weeks.
We do NOT bind futures contracts directly - e.g. you bought 1 contract from Friedrich Engels of South Africa, he went bankrupt and you did not get the money, and everyone else got their profit because they were lucky to make a deal with Karl Marx instead, who is more credible.

So when you trade at ICBIT, you also do not care who the Karl Marx is. In ICBIT, your futures transaction 2nd party is always exchange (when you buy someone's order, there will be at least 2 transactions 1 buy and 1 sell, both of them will have same 2nd party - the exchange).

Now take the example with COMEX and gold. It will make delivery of gold (same way as ICBIT delivers profit for contracts, pledging its own assets) and non-paying Karl Marx will be sued by banks/brokers, government enforcement agency will sell his car and house to cover losses.
ICBIT allows anonymous trades, so to prevent default we have to employ various risk reducing strategies, however theoretically (what I am trying to get you to understand again!) COMEX can easily go default, ICBIT can easily go default and Hong Kong's exchange already went default (even though it was/is an exchange, not some gambling house).
In that case, as it's explained on our webpage, we just pay as much as possible, close as much traders position as it's necessary and then traders are free to reopen them. This is because traders are anonymous, though we do reserve the right to pursue debtors.

Is this finally clear, and could *you* please stop vandalizing the page? I see that you are not new to finances, however if you want to redefine what exchange is, what counterparty is - please go to Wikipedia instead. I'm not for marketing propoganda, I'm for facts.

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]] ([[User talk:Fireball|talk]]) 11:57, 14 August 2013 (GMT)

> Your last three paragraphs are absolutely correct,

If that is true, point me to ICBIT's publicly-stated commitment that it pledges its own assets and equity to "make delivery of (the relevant asset) all the time, and if it doesn't ICBIT itself is in default" as I wrote in the second-to-last and third-to-last paragraphs. Until then the page stays the way it was. Don't revert it again. "We just pay as much as possible" is vague and useless; what matters is whether the exchange pledges its own assets and equity.

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 07:04, 15 August 2013 (GMT)

> The reference was and is there (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414), on the wiki page itself, which lets user read the original thread and make his opinion. So exchange does pledge the assets, and hence I restored the webpage.

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]] ([[User talk:Fireball|talk]]) 23:31, 15 August 2013 (GMT)

> The reference was and is there (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414), on the wiki page itself, which lets user read the original thread and make his opinion. So exchange does pledge the assets,

What? You're not making any sense. That forum posting does not address the issue here.

> and hence I restored the webpage.

I have reported your repeated unconstructive edits to the wiki administrators.

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 02:26, 16 August 2013 (GMT)

If you are not able to understand what's written there, it's your problem, not a problem of users visiting this page. Your actions are harming the community. Look around, the only scam reports are from you and another guy who lost money trading and now blackmails me asking for 1/4 of "his" money to be back in exchange for not spamming this page and forums. Get out of your small world and look around, again. Do you want Bitcoin to succeed? Or you want to kill it, one by one? We really run an honest service for more than 2 years. We contribute to the Bitcoin economy. We work on it every day and every hour. Don't spoil the fun. Hopefully, it's my last message to you.

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]] ([[User talk:Fireball|talk]]) 13:52, 24 August 2013 (GMT)

I haven't posted anything about scam reports; I just revert your unjustified deletions. You are seriously confused. Take your nonsense elsewhere. Here's an idea: if you don't like the part about scam reports, how about '''removing only that part''' instead of huge chunks of unrelated text? Yeah, I know, that would be way too easy...

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 02:40, 25 August 2013 (GMT)

If you can find time for reverts, you could find time for editing, not just reverting. Anyway, I reverted it to the good version, BUT added a text that YOU dispute that ICBIT is not the central counterparty for all trades. And referenced this page so that anyone interested could read through this page and get their own impression.
Because it's YOUR impression, and it must not be forced to EVERYONE reading the page. Readers should get their own impression. And wikipage must state facts, not a biased opinion of some stranger.
The version of text now is as precise as it is. Your description is not correct because you mislead customers into thinking that they trade futures with each other, when in fact they are trading with the exchange (it's a simple fact that I am one of those people who built this exchange from the ground up, and thus I know its internals much better than you do)

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]] ([[User talk:Fireball|talk]]) 12:38, 25 August 2013 (GMT)

You work for ICBIT. I have no stake in its success or failure, nor am I in any way involved with any of its competitors or alternatives.

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 12:45, 25 August 2013 (GMT)

So why the hell did you revert proper version of the text, mentioning your dispute? I think you don't notice this line.

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]] ([[User talk:Fireball|talk]]) 13:14, 25 August 2013 (GMT)

I see that you have made your policy ''even more self-contradictory'' than it was before.

Look, I've grown very tired of re-explaining what a counterparty is to you, but I'll mention one last thing. It seems like you're attempting in vain to come up with some policy that lets you force-close adequately-margined positions and still claim that you are the counterparty. This is totally impossible. If you're force-closing adequately-margined positions, the price used to force closure is not a market-determined price! You're shutting down the market (and perhaps letting it restart, but that's irrelevant) so whatever price you use to force-close is of your own choosing. You've robbed the asset holder of the ability to hold-to-maturity and take delivery. You might think the price you're offering them is fair compensation, but that's beside the point. Without the option to hold-to-maturity there is no way to determine the fair price.

I know you really really really want there to be some magical way you can be an exchange and still retain the ability to force-close the positions of people who have adequate margin because other people (their COUNTERPARTIES) no longer have adequate margin. There is no such magic. So make your choice -- either pledge the exchange's assets+equity to back positions taken (not just whatever part of the position you claim to be "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)") or stop calling yourself an exchange. Putting your business itself on the hook, financially, for the full extent of all positions taken is the only way you can be trusted to run a sufficiently careful margin system, since you are the one exposed for failure to police margins. Reserving the right to dump that risk on your customers whenever you screwed up… well, you can do whatever you want, but there's a damn good reason why no real exchange does this.

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 09:28, 26 August 2013 (GMT)

Here is a [http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/corpgov/2011/07/17/an-introduction-to-the-us-cleared-swap-infrastructure/ really great article] explaining what central counterparty clearing is. It's being required for swaps markets in the USA starting in a few days, so seeing the sorts of changes that come with it give a good idea of what it entails. Most important part:

<blockquote>
Guaranty of financial obligations. A DCO guaranties the financial integrity of all transactions that it has accepted. In the event that a clearing member’s customer defaults on its obligation to answer margin calls, it is the duty of that clearing member to satisfy its customer’s obligation, with a DCO satisfying any part of the default that exceeds the clearing member’s resources.
</blockquote>

This is the essence of central counterparty clearing, and it's basically what the exchange gets paid to do. This stuff is 100% routine for all financial markets except swaps, and that's being changed as we speak.

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 07:07, 28 September 2013 (GMT)

Sorry Eldentyrell, you can't accept anything except your own vision. You can't even accept an unbiased, correct third-party explanation... I'm sorry about you. I guess you need to find some other place in the world which lives according to your vision.
[[User:Fireball|Fireball]]

Fireball, [https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/ICBIT#cite_note-0 what you call an "unbiased correct third-party explanation"] actually agrees with me, writing "ICBIT it is not acting as a clearing house, nor is it the counterparty to the futures trades it brokers. There is no clearing house guarantee, and counterparty risk remains largely unknown.". So what are you talking about? Apparently you emailed whoever writes that blog with a rebuttal; the blogger posted your rebuttal and then '''you quoted the blogger quoting your rebuttal'''. What planet are you from where quoting yourself is considered a third-party explanation? [[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 23:54, 28 September 2013 (GMT)

=== Fireball, wanting money back that was taken through dishonest practices is not blackmail. ===

If you are comfortable with the practices you engage in on your website, why don't you address some of the accusations that have been made against you and your site?

1) Prices are blatantly manipulated through last clearing. The site encourages this, apparently because one or more site owners profit from it. A person expects prices to derive from movements in bitcoin, not overt manipulations. I have provided screenshots on the linked post below.

2) People running the site use their access to client financial information to conduct trades running positions against those clients.

For other observations refer to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845 which you have so far refused to even respond to.

If you want to defend your practices either here or on the forum Fireball, please do so.

No serious trader will stay on your site when they see the kinds of things you do. You are not running an honest financial exchange, you are running a scam built on keeping your clients in the dark about how you operate.

I have made and lost a lot of money on financial exchanges in the last 30+ years and I have never in my life made any sort of complaint against any exchange until yours.

[[User:FleaSpirit|FleaSpirit]] ([[User talk:FleaSpirit|talk]]) 16:41, 26 August 2013 (GMT)FleaSpirit

== The only solution ==

Fireball, any time you want to end this nonsense, all you have to do is man up and admit you have made serious mistakes in running your site and those mistakes need to be fixed.

Make things right then build a proper futures site or shut down.

Your choice.

[[User:FleaSpirit|FleaSpirit]] ([[User talk:FleaSpirit|talk]]) 19:22, 29 September 2013 (GMT)FleaSpirit

ICBIT

2013-09-29T04:39:45Z

FleaSpirit:

−''''' There have been complaints about several core practices at icbit.'''''−

-The primary complaint involves contract price manipulations that allow larger traders, including the site owner, to make profits from smaller traders regardless of bitcoin price movements.

The first comprehensive post questioning various practices at icbit is https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125376.0

Examples of contract manipulations, including screenshots, is included in some complaints, including https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845

Complaints directed to the owner of icbit, who also is the principle contributor to this wiki page, include https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0

−'''Any potential investor should thoroughly understand the issues raised in the complaints. If you are not sure please ask questions in a public forum like bitcointalk.org and do not invest until all questions are answered to your satisfaction.'''−<ref>[http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/icbitse-the-bucket-shop/ Article by Mircea Popescu, proprietor of MPEx]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125376.0 Bitcointalk "bucket shop" thread]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845 Bitcointalk "icbit warning" thread]</ref>

ICBIT is a trading website which runs a few markets. Both the Exchange and Futures markets are live now.

'''ICBIT is not an exchange''' since it does not act as a central counterparty. [http://web.archive.org/web/20130510221928/https://icbit.se/margincall According to their website] users '''are totally exposed to counterparty risk from other traders''' whose identities are concealed from them; the exchange does not pledge its own assets to back the full extent of the other side of a customer's position -- it pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)". Traders are not allowed to conduct background or reputation checks of any kind on these anonymous counterparties. ICBIT recently modified the linked page and it '''now contains self-contradictory information,''' such as "we do pledge our own assets, it's not always the case" and "your profitable position will be closed" at whatever price the exchange deems convenient rather than value-at-maturity. Since the exchange pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)" it is, by definition, not the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterparty counterparty] -- the "loosing [sic] traders" are the counterparty.

A third party's blogger's assessment<ref>http://psychologicalinvestor.com/lib/real-markets/bitcoin-derivatives-liquidity-counterparty-risk-134/</ref> of the situation is that "ICBIT it is not acting as a clearing house, nor is it the counterparty to the futures trades it brokers. There is no clearing house guarantee, and counterparty risk remains largely unknown." The aforementioned blog also contains a rebuttal from ICBIT.

This site is said[source?] to be founded by Fireball and [[DeepBit]] by combining best practices in high-performance trading and Bitcoin experience.

== Counterparty risks ==
The ICBIT site acts as the central intermediary for trades in futures contracts. It does not act as a final guarantor for the clearing process itself, with the results of the clearing process still ultimately dependent upon the counterparty risk exposure to other traders. Thus, the exchange does not act as a counterparty.

Margin call policy is explained on the [https://icbit.se/margincall ICBIT website].

== Features ==
For its currency exchange section ICBIT makes an accent on the following:
* State-of-the-art technologies usage. Instead of using old, slow, polling-based algorithms ICBIT builds atop of the most up to date technologies. Its web trading client is in pure HTML and JavaScript (even compatible with most mobile devices), however it's fully realtime thanks to websockets and AJAX.
* Speed of trading. Bitcoin forum is full of anger against slowness of existing exchanges. ICBIT implements special high performance trading engine and uses high-performance "no SQL" database to eliminate the problem.
* No limits. Most of the existing exchanges put rather restrictive limitations and require users to prove their identity. ICBIT finds this totally unacceptable and does not put any limits at all.

==Futures==
Futures traded include:

Futures contracts on USD/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/BUQ3 BUQ3] (expires August 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUU3 BUU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUV3 BUV3] (expires October 14, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ3 BUZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on Bitcoin difficulty
* [https://icbit.se/DFU3 DFU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/DFZ3 DFZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on LTC/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/LBU3 LBU3] (expires September 17, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on S&P500 index
* [https://icbit.se/ESU3 ESU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Settled futures:
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ2 BUZ2] (Futures contract, expired December 15, 2012, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUH3 BUH3] (Futures contract, expired March 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/CLG3 CLG3] (Crude Oil Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/GDG3 GDG3] (Gold Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)

==Exchange==
Traded on the exchange are:

* BTC/USD
* BTC/RUB (Russian Ruble)

==Adding Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin deposits to the account's BTC EWallet. Funds are added to the account's wallet after six (6) confirmations. Transactions made by [[DeepBit]] mining pool are added instantly.

===USD===

There are no methods to add USD funds.

===RUB===

QIWI vouchers can be used to add funds to an account's Russian ruble EWallet.

==Widthraw Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin withdrawals from the account's BTC EWallet.

===USD===

There are no USD withdrawal methods.

===RUB===

Funds can be withdrawn from the account's Russian ruble EWallet as QIWI vouchers.

==Security==

Accounts can be protected where both login and any money withdrawal operation requires the one-time password (OTP) feature known as two-step authentication. A mobile smartphone with Google Authenticator is the most commonly used OTP device.

== History ==
First mentions of ICBIT appeared in June and July 2011 in the Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread at bitcointalk.org<ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=20377.msg319099#msg319099 Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread]</ref> and Bitcoin futures market discussion <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15818.msg250391#msg250391 Fireball's statement about ongoing futures exchange work]</ref>. By that time a very first version of the trading engine was developed.

A more detailed thread specific to ICBIT futures market was started <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg605807#msg605807 ICBIT derivatives market thread]</ref> in November, 2011. The first closed test of futures market was performed, and work on the new version of web trading client was started.

Finally in January, 2012 the currency exchange section went live <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60548.0 Bitcointalk announcement of a new exchange live testing]</ref>

==See Also==

* [[Buying bitcoins]]
* [[Selling bitcoins]]

== External Links ==
* [https://icbit.se ICBIT] website.
* [https://icbit.se/WebTrade/ Trading client] Direct link to the web trading client logon.
* At one point in the past, somebody who goes by the identifier "Fireball" [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414 voluntarily took the took one "bad customers" debt].

== References ==
<references />

[[Category:Exchanges]]
[[Category:Stock_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Bonds_Markets]]
[[Category:Futures_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Investing]]

ICBIT

2013-09-29T04:36:47Z

FleaSpirit:

−''''' There have been complaints about several core practices at icbit.'''''−

-The primary complaint involves contract price manipulations that allow larger traders, including the site owner, to make profits from smaller traders regardless of bitcoin price movements.

Examples of contract manipulations, including screenshots, is included in some complaints, including https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845

Complaints directed to the owner of icbit, who also is the principle contributor to this wiki page, include https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0

−'''Any potential investor should thoroughly understand the issues raised in the complaints. If you are not sure please ask questions in a public forum like bitcointalk.org and do not invest until all questions are answered to your satisfaction.'''−<ref>[http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/icbitse-the-bucket-shop/ Article by Mircea Popescu, proprietor of MPEx]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125376.0 Bitcointalk "bucket shop" thread]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845 Bitcointalk "icbit warning" thread]</ref>

ICBIT is a trading website which runs a few markets. Both the Exchange and Futures markets are live now.

'''ICBIT is not an exchange''' since it does not act as a central counterparty. [http://web.archive.org/web/20130510221928/https://icbit.se/margincall According to their website] users '''are totally exposed to counterparty risk from other traders''' whose identities are concealed from them; the exchange does not pledge its own assets to back the full extent of the other side of a customer's position -- it pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)". Traders are not allowed to conduct background or reputation checks of any kind on these anonymous counterparties. ICBIT recently modified the linked page and it '''now contains self-contradictory information,''' such as "we do pledge our own assets, it's not always the case" and "your profitable position will be closed" at whatever price the exchange deems convenient rather than value-at-maturity. Since the exchange pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)" it is, by definition, not the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterparty counterparty] -- the "loosing [sic] traders" are the counterparty.

A third party's blogger's assessment<ref>http://psychologicalinvestor.com/lib/real-markets/bitcoin-derivatives-liquidity-counterparty-risk-134/</ref> of the situation is that "ICBIT it is not acting as a clearing house, nor is it the counterparty to the futures trades it brokers. There is no clearing house guarantee, and counterparty risk remains largely unknown." The aforementioned blog also contains a rebuttal from ICBIT.

This site is said[source?] to be founded by Fireball and [[DeepBit]] by combining best practices in high-performance trading and Bitcoin experience.

== Counterparty risks ==
The ICBIT site acts as the central intermediary for trades in futures contracts. It does not act as a final guarantor for the clearing process itself, with the results of the clearing process still ultimately dependent upon the counterparty risk exposure to other traders. Thus, the exchange does not act as a counterparty.

Margin call policy is explained on the [https://icbit.se/margincall ICBIT website].

== Features ==
For its currency exchange section ICBIT makes an accent on the following:
* State-of-the-art technologies usage. Instead of using old, slow, polling-based algorithms ICBIT builds atop of the most up to date technologies. Its web trading client is in pure HTML and JavaScript (even compatible with most mobile devices), however it's fully realtime thanks to websockets and AJAX.
* Speed of trading. Bitcoin forum is full of anger against slowness of existing exchanges. ICBIT implements special high performance trading engine and uses high-performance "no SQL" database to eliminate the problem.
* No limits. Most of the existing exchanges put rather restrictive limitations and require users to prove their identity. ICBIT finds this totally unacceptable and does not put any limits at all.

==Futures==
Futures traded include:

Futures contracts on USD/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/BUQ3 BUQ3] (expires August 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUU3 BUU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUV3 BUV3] (expires October 14, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ3 BUZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on Bitcoin difficulty
* [https://icbit.se/DFU3 DFU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/DFZ3 DFZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on LTC/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/LBU3 LBU3] (expires September 17, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on S&P500 index
* [https://icbit.se/ESU3 ESU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Settled futures:
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ2 BUZ2] (Futures contract, expired December 15, 2012, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUH3 BUH3] (Futures contract, expired March 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/CLG3 CLG3] (Crude Oil Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/GDG3 GDG3] (Gold Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)

==Exchange==
Traded on the exchange are:

* BTC/USD
* BTC/RUB (Russian Ruble)

==Adding Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin deposits to the account's BTC EWallet. Funds are added to the account's wallet after six (6) confirmations. Transactions made by [[DeepBit]] mining pool are added instantly.

===USD===

There are no methods to add USD funds.

===RUB===

QIWI vouchers can be used to add funds to an account's Russian ruble EWallet.

==Widthraw Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin withdrawals from the account's BTC EWallet.

===USD===

There are no USD withdrawal methods.

===RUB===

Funds can be withdrawn from the account's Russian ruble EWallet as QIWI vouchers.

==Security==

Accounts can be protected where both login and any money withdrawal operation requires the one-time password (OTP) feature known as two-step authentication. A mobile smartphone with Google Authenticator is the most commonly used OTP device.

== History ==
First mentions of ICBIT appeared in June and July 2011 in the Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread at bitcointalk.org<ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=20377.msg319099#msg319099 Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread]</ref> and Bitcoin futures market discussion <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15818.msg250391#msg250391 Fireball's statement about ongoing futures exchange work]</ref>. By that time a very first version of the trading engine was developed.

A more detailed thread specific to ICBIT futures market was started <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg605807#msg605807 ICBIT derivatives market thread]</ref> in November, 2011. The first closed test of futures market was performed, and work on the new version of web trading client was started.

Finally in January, 2012 the currency exchange section went live <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60548.0 Bitcointalk announcement of a new exchange live testing]</ref>

==See Also==

* [[Buying bitcoins]]
* [[Selling bitcoins]]

== External Links ==
* [https://icbit.se ICBIT] website.
* [https://icbit.se/WebTrade/ Trading client] Direct link to the web trading client logon.
* At one point in the past, somebody who goes by the identifier "Fireball" [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414 voluntarily took the took one "bad customers" debt].

== References ==
<references />

[[Category:Exchanges]]
[[Category:Stock_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Bonds_Markets]]
[[Category:Futures_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Investing]]

ICBIT

2013-09-27T23:03:27Z

FleaSpirit: Undo revision 41370 by Fireball (talk)

−''''' There have been complaints about several core practices at icbit.'''''−

-The primary complaint involves contract price manipulations that allow larger traders, including the site owner, to make profits from smaller traders regardless of bitcoin price movements.

Examples of contract manipulations, including screenshots, is included in some complaints, including https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845

Complaints directed to the owner of icbit, who also is the principle contributor to this wiki page, include https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0

−'''Any potential investor should thoroughly understand the issues raised in the complaints. If you are not sure please ask questions in a public forum like bitcointalk.org and do not invest until all questions are answered to your satisfaction.'''−<ref>[http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/icbitse-the-bucket-shop/ Article by Mircea Popescu, proprietor of MPEx]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125376.0 Bitcointalk "bucket shop" thread]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845 Bitcointalk "icbit warning" thread]</ref>

- - - - - - - -

ICBIT is a trading website which runs a few markets. Both the Exchange and Futures markets are live now.

This site is said[source?] to be founded by Fireball and [[DeepBit]] by combining best practices in high-performance trading and Bitcoin experience.

'''ICBIT is not an exchange''' since it does not act as a central counterparty. [http://web.archive.org/web/20130510221928/https://icbit.se/margincall According to their website] users '''are totally exposed to counterparty risk from other traders''' whose identities are concealed from them; the exchange does not pledge its own assets to back the full extent of the other side of a customer's position -- it pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)". Traders are not allowed to conduct background or reputation checks of any kind on these anonymous counterparties. ICBIT recently modified the linked page and it '''now contains self-contradictory information,''' such as "we do pledge our own assets, it's not always the case" and "your profitable position will be closed" at whatever price the exchange deems convenient rather than value-at-maturity. Since the exchange pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)" it is, by definition, not the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterparty counterparty] -- the "loosing [sic] traders" are the counterparty.

== Features ==
For its currency exchange section ICBIT makes an accent on the following:
* State-of-the-art technologies usage. Instead of using old, slow, polling-based algorithms ICBIT builds atop of the most up to date technologies. Its web trading client is in pure HTML and JavaScript (even compatible with most mobile devices), however it's fully realtime thanks to websockets and AJAX.
* Speed of trading. Bitcoin forum is full of anger against slowness of existing exchanges. ICBIT implements special high performance trading engine and uses high-performance "no SQL" database to eliminate the problem.
* No limits. Most of the existing exchanges put rather restrictive limitations and require users to prove their identity. ICBIT finds this totally unacceptable and does not put any limits at all.

==Futures==
Futures traded include:

Futures contracts on USD/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/BUQ3 BUQ3] (expires August 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUU3 BUU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUV3 BUV3] (expires October 14, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ3 BUZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on Bitcoin difficulty
* [https://icbit.se/DFU3 DFU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/DFZ3 DFZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on LTC/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/LBU3 LBU3] (expires September 17, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on S&P500 index
* [https://icbit.se/ESU3 ESU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Settled futures:
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ2 BUZ2] (Futures contract, expired December 15, 2012, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUH3 BUH3] (Futures contract, expired March 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/CLG3 CLG3] (Crude Oil Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/GDG3 GDG3] (Gold Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)

==Exchange==
Traded on the exchange are:

* BTC/USD
* BTC/RUB (Russian Ruble)

==Adding Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin deposits to the account's BTC EWallet. Funds are added to the account's wallet after six (6) confirmations. Transactions made by [[DeepBit]] mining pool are added instantly.

===USD===

There are no methods to add USD funds.

===RUB===

QIWI vouchers can be used to add funds to an account's Russian ruble EWallet.

==Widthraw Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin withdrawals from the account's BTC EWallet.

===USD===

There are no USD withdrawal methods.

===RUB===

Funds can be withdrawn from the account's Russian ruble EWallet as QIWI vouchers.

==Security==

Accounts can be protected where both login and any money withdrawal operation requires the one-time password (OTP) feature known as two-step authentication. A mobile smartphone with Google Authenticator is the most commonly used OTP device.

== History ==
First mentions of ICBIT appeared in June and July 2011 in the Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread at bitcointalk.org<ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=20377.msg319099#msg319099 Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread]</ref> and Bitcoin futures market discussion <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15818.msg250391#msg250391 Fireball's statement about ongoing futures exchange work]</ref>. By that time a very first version of the trading engine was developed.

A more detailed thread specific to ICBIT futures market was started <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg605807#msg605807 ICBIT derivatives market thread]</ref> in November, 2011. The first closed test of futures market was performed, and work on the new version of web trading client was started.

Finally in January, 2012 the currency exchange section went live <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60548.0 Bitcointalk announcement of a new exchange live testing]</ref>

==See Also==

* [[Buying bitcoins]]
* [[Selling bitcoins]]
* [[Bitcoin_Ladder#Top_Scams.2C_thefts.2C_hacks_and_heists|Top Scams, thefts, hacks and heists]]

== External Links ==
* [https://icbit.se ICBIT] website.
* [https://icbit.se/WebTrade/ Trading client] Direct link to the web trading client logon.
* At one point in the past, somebody who goes by the identifier "Fireball" [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414 voluntarily took the took one "bad customers" debt]. note: Fireball is also the main contributor to this wiki page and the apparent owner of icbit, so the post should be taken with a grain of salt.

== References ==
<references />

[[Category:Exchanges]]
[[Category:Stock_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Bonds_Markets]]
[[Category:Futures_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Investing]]

ICBIT

2013-09-26T23:05:19Z

FleaSpirit: Undo revision 41356 by Fireball (talk)

−''''' There have been complaints about several core practices at icbit.'''''−

-The primary complaint involves contract price manipulations that allow larger traders, including the site owner, to make profits from smaller traders regardless of bitcoin price movements.

Examples of contract manipulations, including screenshots, is included in some complaints, including https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845

Complaints directed to the owner of icbit, who also is the principle contributor to this wiki page, include https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0

−'''Any potential investor should thoroughly understand the issues raised in the complaints. If you are not sure please ask questions in a public forum like bitcointalk.org and do not invest until all questions are answered to your satisfaction.'''−<ref>[http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/icbitse-the-bucket-shop/ Article by Mircea Popescu, proprietor of MPEx]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125376.0 Bitcointalk "bucket shop" thread]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845 Bitcointalk "icbit warning" thread]</ref>

- - - - - - - -

ICBIT is a trading website which runs a few markets. Both the Exchange and Futures markets are live now.

This site is said[source?] to be founded by Fireball and [[DeepBit]] by combining best practices in high-performance trading and Bitcoin experience.

'''ICBIT is not an exchange''' since it does not act as a central counterparty. [http://web.archive.org/web/20130510221928/https://icbit.se/margincall According to their website] users '''are totally exposed to counterparty risk from other traders''' whose identities are concealed from them; the exchange does not pledge its own assets to back the full extent of the other side of a customer's position -- it pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)". Traders are not allowed to conduct background or reputation checks of any kind on these anonymous counterparties. ICBIT recently modified the linked page and it '''now contains self-contradictory information,''' such as "we do pledge our own assets, it's not always the case" and "your profitable position will be closed" at whatever price the exchange deems convenient rather than value-at-maturity. Since the exchange pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)" it is, by definition, not the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterparty counterparty] -- the "loosing [sic] traders" are the counterparty.

== Features ==
For its currency exchange section ICBIT makes an accent on the following:
* State-of-the-art technologies usage. Instead of using old, slow, polling-based algorithms ICBIT builds atop of the most up to date technologies. Its web trading client is in pure HTML and JavaScript (even compatible with most mobile devices), however it's fully realtime thanks to websockets and AJAX.
* Speed of trading. Bitcoin forum is full of anger against slowness of existing exchanges. ICBIT implements special high performance trading engine and uses high-performance "no SQL" database to eliminate the problem.
* No limits. Most of the existing exchanges put rather restrictive limitations and require users to prove their identity. ICBIT finds this totally unacceptable and does not put any limits at all.

==Futures==
Futures traded include:

Futures contracts on USD/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/BUQ3 BUQ3] (expires August 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUU3 BUU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUV3 BUV3] (expires October 14, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ3 BUZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on Bitcoin difficulty
* [https://icbit.se/DFU3 DFU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/DFZ3 DFZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on LTC/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/LBU3 LBU3] (expires September 17, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on S&P500 index
* [https://icbit.se/ESU3 ESU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Settled futures:
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ2 BUZ2] (Futures contract, expired December 15, 2012, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUH3 BUH3] (Futures contract, expired March 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/CLG3 CLG3] (Crude Oil Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/GDG3 GDG3] (Gold Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)

==Exchange==
Traded on the exchange are:

* BTC/USD
* BTC/RUB (Russian Ruble)

==Adding Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin deposits to the account's BTC EWallet. Funds are added to the account's wallet after six (6) confirmations. Transactions made by [[DeepBit]] mining pool are added instantly.

===USD===

There are no methods to add USD funds.

===RUB===

QIWI vouchers can be used to add funds to an account's Russian ruble EWallet.

==Widthraw Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin withdrawals from the account's BTC EWallet.

===USD===

There are no USD withdrawal methods.

===RUB===

Funds can be withdrawn from the account's Russian ruble EWallet as QIWI vouchers.

==Security==

Accounts can be protected where both login and any money withdrawal operation requires the one-time password (OTP) feature known as two-step authentication. A mobile smartphone with Google Authenticator is the most commonly used OTP device.

== History ==
First mentions of ICBIT appeared in June and July 2011 in the Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread at bitcointalk.org<ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=20377.msg319099#msg319099 Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread]</ref> and Bitcoin futures market discussion <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15818.msg250391#msg250391 Fireball's statement about ongoing futures exchange work]</ref>. By that time a very first version of the trading engine was developed.

A more detailed thread specific to ICBIT futures market was started <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg605807#msg605807 ICBIT derivatives market thread]</ref> in November, 2011. The first closed test of futures market was performed, and work on the new version of web trading client was started.

Finally in January, 2012 the currency exchange section went live <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60548.0 Bitcointalk announcement of a new exchange live testing]</ref>

==See Also==

* [[Buying bitcoins]]
* [[Selling bitcoins]]
* [[Bitcoin_Ladder#Top_Scams.2C_thefts.2C_hacks_and_heists|Top Scams, thefts, hacks and heists]]

== External Links ==
* [https://icbit.se ICBIT] website.
* [https://icbit.se/WebTrade/ Trading client] Direct link to the web trading client logon.
* At one point in the past, somebody who goes by the identifier "Fireball" [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414 voluntarily took the took one "bad customers" debt]. note: Fireball is also the main contributor to this wiki page and the apparent owner of icbit, so the post should be taken with a grain of salt.

== References ==
<references />

[[Category:Exchanges]]
[[Category:Stock_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Bonds_Markets]]
[[Category:Futures_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Investing]]

ICBIT

2013-09-26T22:48:03Z

FleaSpirit: Undo revision 41353 by Fireball (talk)

−''''' There have been complaints about several core practices at icbit.'''''−

-The primary complaint involves contract price manipulations that allow larger traders, including the site owner, to make profits from smaller traders regardless of bitcoin price movements.

Examples of contract manipulations, including screenshots, is included in some complaints, including https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845

Complaints directed to the owner of icbit, who also is the principle contributor to this wiki page, include https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0

−'''Any potential investor should thoroughly understand the issues raised in the complaints. If you are not sure please ask questions in a public forum like bitcointalk.org and do not invest until all questions are answered to your satisfaction.'''−<ref>[http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/icbitse-the-bucket-shop/ Article by Mircea Popescu, proprietor of MPEx]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125376.0 Bitcointalk "bucket shop" thread]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845 Bitcointalk "icbit warning" thread]</ref>

- - - - - - - -

ICBIT is a trading website which runs a few markets. Both the Exchange and Futures markets are live now.

This site is said[source?] to be founded by Fireball and [[DeepBit]] by combining best practices in high-performance trading and Bitcoin experience.

'''ICBIT is not an exchange''' since it does not act as a central counterparty. [http://web.archive.org/web/20130510221928/https://icbit.se/margincall According to their website] users '''are totally exposed to counterparty risk from other traders''' whose identities are concealed from them; the exchange does not pledge its own assets to back the full extent of the other side of a customer's position -- it pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)". Traders are not allowed to conduct background or reputation checks of any kind on these anonymous counterparties. ICBIT recently modified the linked page and it '''now contains self-contradictory information,''' such as "we do pledge our own assets, it's not always the case" and "your profitable position will be closed" at whatever price the exchange deems convenient rather than value-at-maturity. Since the exchange pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)" it is, by definition, not the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterparty counterparty] -- the "loosing [sic] traders" are the counterparty.

== Features ==
For its currency exchange section ICBIT makes an accent on the following:
* State-of-the-art technologies usage. Instead of using old, slow, polling-based algorithms ICBIT builds atop of the most up to date technologies. Its web trading client is in pure HTML and JavaScript (even compatible with most mobile devices), however it's fully realtime thanks to websockets and AJAX.
* Speed of trading. Bitcoin forum is full of anger against slowness of existing exchanges. ICBIT implements special high performance trading engine and uses high-performance "no SQL" database to eliminate the problem.
* No limits. Most of the existing exchanges put rather restrictive limitations and require users to prove their identity. ICBIT finds this totally unacceptable and does not put any limits at all.

==Futures==
Futures traded include:

Futures contracts on USD/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/BUQ3 BUQ3] (expires August 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUU3 BUU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUV3 BUV3] (expires October 14, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ3 BUZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on Bitcoin difficulty
* [https://icbit.se/DFU3 DFU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/DFZ3 DFZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on LTC/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/LBU3 LBU3] (expires September 17, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on S&P500 index
* [https://icbit.se/ESU3 ESU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Settled futures:
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ2 BUZ2] (Futures contract, expired December 15, 2012, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUH3 BUH3] (Futures contract, expired March 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/CLG3 CLG3] (Crude Oil Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/GDG3 GDG3] (Gold Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)

==Exchange==
Traded on the exchange are:

* BTC/USD
* BTC/RUB (Russian Ruble)

==Adding Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin deposits to the account's BTC EWallet. Funds are added to the account's wallet after six (6) confirmations. Transactions made by [[DeepBit]] mining pool are added instantly.

===USD===

There are no methods to add USD funds.

===RUB===

QIWI vouchers can be used to add funds to an account's Russian ruble EWallet.

==Widthraw Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin withdrawals from the account's BTC EWallet.

===USD===

There are no USD withdrawal methods.

===RUB===

Funds can be withdrawn from the account's Russian ruble EWallet as QIWI vouchers.

==Security==

Accounts can be protected where both login and any money withdrawal operation requires the one-time password (OTP) feature known as two-step authentication. A mobile smartphone with Google Authenticator is the most commonly used OTP device.

== History ==
First mentions of ICBIT appeared in June and July 2011 in the Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread at bitcointalk.org<ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=20377.msg319099#msg319099 Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread]</ref> and Bitcoin futures market discussion <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15818.msg250391#msg250391 Fireball's statement about ongoing futures exchange work]</ref>. By that time a very first version of the trading engine was developed.

A more detailed thread specific to ICBIT futures market was started <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg605807#msg605807 ICBIT derivatives market thread]</ref> in November, 2011. The first closed test of futures market was performed, and work on the new version of web trading client was started.

Finally in January, 2012 the currency exchange section went live <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60548.0 Bitcointalk announcement of a new exchange live testing]</ref>

==See Also==

* [[Buying bitcoins]]
* [[Selling bitcoins]]
* [[Bitcoin_Ladder#Top_Scams.2C_thefts.2C_hacks_and_heists|Top Scams, thefts, hacks and heists]]

== External Links ==
* [https://icbit.se ICBIT] website.
* [https://icbit.se/WebTrade/ Trading client] Direct link to the web trading client logon.
* At one point in the past, somebody who goes by the identifier "Fireball" [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414 voluntarily took the took one "bad customers" debt]. note: Fireball is also the main contributor to this wiki page and the apparent owner of icbit, so the post should be taken with a grain of salt.

== References ==
<references />

[[Category:Exchanges]]
[[Category:Stock_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Bonds_Markets]]
[[Category:Futures_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Investing]]

ICBIT

2013-09-26T21:38:25Z

FleaSpirit: Undo revision 41351 by Fireball (talk)

−''''' There have been complaints about several core practices at icbit.'''''−

-The primary complaint involves contract price manipulations that allow larger traders, including the site owner, to make profits from smaller traders regardless of bitcoin price movements.

Examples of contract manipulations, including screenshots, is included in some complaints, including https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845

Complaints directed to the owner of icbit, who also is the principle contributor to this wiki page, include https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0

−'''Any potential investor should thoroughly understand the issues raised in the complaints. If you are not sure please ask questions in a public forum like bitcointalk.org and do not invest until all questions are answered to your satisfaction.'''−<ref>[http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/icbitse-the-bucket-shop/ Article by Mircea Popescu, proprietor of MPEx]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125376.0 Bitcointalk "bucket shop" thread]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845 Bitcointalk "icbit warning" thread]</ref>

- - - - - - - -

ICBIT is a trading website which runs a few markets. Both the Exchange and Futures markets are live now.

This site is said[source?] to be founded by Fireball and [[DeepBit]] by combining best practices in high-performance trading and Bitcoin experience.

'''ICBIT is not an exchange''' since it does not act as a central counterparty. [http://web.archive.org/web/20130510221928/https://icbit.se/margincall According to their website] users '''are totally exposed to counterparty risk from other traders''' whose identities are concealed from them; the exchange does not pledge its own assets to back the full extent of the other side of a customer's position -- it pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)". Traders are not allowed to conduct background or reputation checks of any kind on these anonymous counterparties. ICBIT recently modified the linked page and it '''now contains self-contradictory information,''' such as "we do pledge our own assets, it's not always the case" and "your profitable position will be closed" at whatever price the exchange deems convenient rather than value-at-maturity. Since the exchange pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)" it is, by definition, not the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterparty counterparty] -- the "loosing [sic] traders" are the counterparty.

== Features ==
For its currency exchange section ICBIT makes an accent on the following:
* State-of-the-art technologies usage. Instead of using old, slow, polling-based algorithms ICBIT builds atop of the most up to date technologies. Its web trading client is in pure HTML and JavaScript (even compatible with most mobile devices), however it's fully realtime thanks to websockets and AJAX.
* Speed of trading. Bitcoin forum is full of anger against slowness of existing exchanges. ICBIT implements special high performance trading engine and uses high-performance "no SQL" database to eliminate the problem.
* No limits. Most of the existing exchanges put rather restrictive limitations and require users to prove their identity. ICBIT finds this totally unacceptable and does not put any limits at all.

==Futures==
Futures traded include:

Futures contracts on USD/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/BUQ3 BUQ3] (expires August 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUU3 BUU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUV3 BUV3] (expires October 14, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ3 BUZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on Bitcoin difficulty
* [https://icbit.se/DFU3 DFU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/DFZ3 DFZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on LTC/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/LBU3 LBU3] (expires September 17, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on S&P500 index
* [https://icbit.se/ESU3 ESU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Settled futures:
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ2 BUZ2] (Futures contract, expired December 15, 2012, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUH3 BUH3] (Futures contract, expired March 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/CLG3 CLG3] (Crude Oil Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/GDG3 GDG3] (Gold Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)

==Exchange==
Traded on the exchange are:

* BTC/USD
* BTC/RUB (Russian Ruble)

==Adding Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin deposits to the account's BTC EWallet. Funds are added to the account's wallet after six (6) confirmations. Transactions made by [[DeepBit]] mining pool are added instantly.

===USD===

There are no methods to add USD funds.

===RUB===

QIWI vouchers can be used to add funds to an account's Russian ruble EWallet.

==Widthraw Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin withdrawals from the account's BTC EWallet.

===USD===

There are no USD withdrawal methods.

===RUB===

Funds can be withdrawn from the account's Russian ruble EWallet as QIWI vouchers.

==Security==

Accounts can be protected where both login and any money withdrawal operation requires the one-time password (OTP) feature known as two-step authentication. A mobile smartphone with Google Authenticator is the most commonly used OTP device.

== History ==
First mentions of ICBIT appeared in June and July 2011 in the Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread at bitcointalk.org<ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=20377.msg319099#msg319099 Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread]</ref> and Bitcoin futures market discussion <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15818.msg250391#msg250391 Fireball's statement about ongoing futures exchange work]</ref>. By that time a very first version of the trading engine was developed.

A more detailed thread specific to ICBIT futures market was started <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg605807#msg605807 ICBIT derivatives market thread]</ref> in November, 2011. The first closed test of futures market was performed, and work on the new version of web trading client was started.

Finally in January, 2012 the currency exchange section went live <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60548.0 Bitcointalk announcement of a new exchange live testing]</ref>

==See Also==

* [[Buying bitcoins]]
* [[Selling bitcoins]]
* [[Bitcoin_Ladder#Top_Scams.2C_thefts.2C_hacks_and_heists|Top Scams, thefts, hacks and heists]]

== External Links ==
* [https://icbit.se ICBIT] website.
* [https://icbit.se/WebTrade/ Trading client] Direct link to the web trading client logon.
* At one point in the past, somebody who goes by the identifier "Fireball" [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414 voluntarily took the took one "bad customers" debt]. note: Fireball is also the main contributor to this wiki page and the apparent owner of icbit, so the post should be taken with a grain of salt.

== References ==
<references />

[[Category:Exchanges]]
[[Category:Stock_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Bonds_Markets]]
[[Category:Futures_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Investing]]

ICBIT

2013-09-26T20:11:15Z

FleaSpirit: Undo revision 41330 by Fireball (talk)

−''''' There have been complaints about several core practices at icbit.'''''−

-The primary complaint involves contract price manipulations that allow larger traders, including the site owner, to make profits from smaller traders regardless of bitcoin price movements.

Examples of contract manipulations, including screenshots, is included in some complaints, including https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845

Complaints directed to the owner of icbit, who also is the principle contributor to this wiki page, include https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0

−'''Any potential investor should thoroughly understand the issues raised in the complaints. If you are not sure please ask questions in a public forum like bitcointalk.org and do not invest until all questions are answered to your satisfaction.'''−<ref>[http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/icbitse-the-bucket-shop/ Article by Mircea Popescu, proprietor of MPEx]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125376.0 Bitcointalk "bucket shop" thread]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845 Bitcointalk "icbit warning" thread]</ref>

- - - - - - - -

ICBIT is a trading website which runs a few markets. Both the Exchange and Futures markets are live now.

This site is said[source?] to be founded by Fireball and [[DeepBit]] by combining best practices in high-performance trading and Bitcoin experience.

'''ICBIT is not an exchange''' since it does not act as a central counterparty. [http://web.archive.org/web/20130510221928/https://icbit.se/margincall According to their website] users '''are totally exposed to counterparty risk from other traders''' whose identities are concealed from them; the exchange does not pledge its own assets to back the full extent of the other side of a customer's position -- it pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)". Traders are not allowed to conduct background or reputation checks of any kind on these anonymous counterparties. ICBIT recently modified the linked page and it '''now contains self-contradictory information,''' such as "we do pledge our own assets, it's not always the case" and "your profitable position will be closed" at whatever price the exchange deems convenient rather than value-at-maturity. Since the exchange pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)" it is, by definition, not the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterparty counterparty] -- the "loosing [sic] traders" are the counterparty.

== Features ==
For its currency exchange section ICBIT makes an accent on the following:
* State-of-the-art technologies usage. Instead of using old, slow, polling-based algorithms ICBIT builds atop of the most up to date technologies. Its web trading client is in pure HTML and JavaScript (even compatible with most mobile devices), however it's fully realtime thanks to websockets and AJAX.
* Speed of trading. Bitcoin forum is full of anger against slowness of existing exchanges. ICBIT implements special high performance trading engine and uses high-performance "no SQL" database to eliminate the problem.
* No limits. Most of the existing exchanges put rather restrictive limitations and require users to prove their identity. ICBIT finds this totally unacceptable and does not put any limits at all.

==Futures==
Futures traded include:

Futures contracts on USD/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/BUQ3 BUQ3] (expires August 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUU3 BUU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUV3 BUV3] (expires October 14, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ3 BUZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on Bitcoin difficulty
* [https://icbit.se/DFU3 DFU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/DFZ3 DFZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on LTC/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/LBU3 LBU3] (expires September 17, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on S&P500 index
* [https://icbit.se/ESU3 ESU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Settled futures:
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ2 BUZ2] (Futures contract, expired December 15, 2012, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUH3 BUH3] (Futures contract, expired March 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/CLG3 CLG3] (Crude Oil Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/GDG3 GDG3] (Gold Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)

==Exchange==
Traded on the exchange are:

* BTC/USD
* BTC/RUB (Russian Ruble)

==Adding Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin deposits to the account's BTC EWallet. Funds are added to the account's wallet after six (6) confirmations. Transactions made by [[DeepBit]] mining pool are added instantly.

===USD===

There are no methods to add USD funds.

===RUB===

QIWI vouchers can be used to add funds to an account's Russian ruble EWallet.

==Widthraw Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin withdrawals from the account's BTC EWallet.

===USD===

There are no USD withdrawal methods.

===RUB===

Funds can be withdrawn from the account's Russian ruble EWallet as QIWI vouchers.

==Security==

Accounts can be protected where both login and any money withdrawal operation requires the one-time password (OTP) feature known as two-step authentication. A mobile smartphone with Google Authenticator is the most commonly used OTP device.

== History ==
First mentions of ICBIT appeared in June and July 2011 in the Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread at bitcointalk.org<ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=20377.msg319099#msg319099 Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread]</ref> and Bitcoin futures market discussion <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15818.msg250391#msg250391 Fireball's statement about ongoing futures exchange work]</ref>. By that time a very first version of the trading engine was developed.

A more detailed thread specific to ICBIT futures market was started <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg605807#msg605807 ICBIT derivatives market thread]</ref> in November, 2011. The first closed test of futures market was performed, and work on the new version of web trading client was started.

Finally in January, 2012 the currency exchange section went live <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60548.0 Bitcointalk announcement of a new exchange live testing]</ref>

==See Also==

* [[Buying bitcoins]]
* [[Selling bitcoins]]
* [[Bitcoin_Ladder#Top_Scams.2C_thefts.2C_hacks_and_heists|Top Scams, thefts, hacks and heists]]

== External Links ==
* [https://icbit.se ICBIT] website.
* [https://icbit.se/WebTrade/ Trading client] Direct link to the web trading client logon.
* At one point in the past, somebody who goes by the identifier "Fireball" [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414 voluntarily took the took one "bad customers" debt]. note: Fireball is also the main contributor to this wiki page and the apparent owner of icbit, so the post should be taken with a grain of salt.

== References ==
<references />

[[Category:Exchanges]]
[[Category:Stock_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Bonds_Markets]]
[[Category:Futures_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Investing]]

ICBIT

2013-09-26T17:37:48Z

FleaSpirit: Undo revision 41324 by Fireball (talk)

−''''' There have been complaints about several core practices at icbit.'''''−

-The primary complaint involves contract price manipulations that allow larger traders, including the site owner, to make profits from smaller traders regardless of bitcoin price movements.

Examples of contract manipulations, including screenshots, is included in some complaints, including https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845

Complaints directed to the owner of icbit, who also is the principle contributor to this wiki page, include https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0

−'''Any potential investor should thoroughly understand the issues raised in the complaints. If you are not sure please ask questions in a public forum like bitcointalk.org and do not invest until all questions are answered to your satisfaction.'''−<ref>[http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/icbitse-the-bucket-shop/ Article by Mircea Popescu, proprietor of MPEx]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125376.0 Bitcointalk "bucket shop" thread]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845 Bitcointalk "icbit warning" thread]</ref>

- - - - - - - -

ICBIT is a trading website which runs a few markets. Both the Exchange and Futures markets are live now.

This site is said[source?] to be founded by Fireball and [[DeepBit]] by combining best practices in high-performance trading and Bitcoin experience.

'''ICBIT is not an exchange''' since it does not act as a central counterparty. [http://web.archive.org/web/20130510221928/https://icbit.se/margincall According to their website] users '''are totally exposed to counterparty risk from other traders''' whose identities are concealed from them; the exchange does not pledge its own assets to back the full extent of the other side of a customer's position -- it pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)". Traders are not allowed to conduct background or reputation checks of any kind on these anonymous counterparties. ICBIT recently modified the linked page and it '''now contains self-contradictory information,''' such as "we do pledge our own assets, it's not always the case" and "your profitable position will be closed" at whatever price the exchange deems convenient rather than value-at-maturity. Since the exchange pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)" it is, by definition, not the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterparty counterparty] -- the "loosing [sic] traders" are the counterparty.

== Features ==
For its currency exchange section ICBIT makes an accent on the following:
* State-of-the-art technologies usage. Instead of using old, slow, polling-based algorithms ICBIT builds atop of the most up to date technologies. Its web trading client is in pure HTML and JavaScript (even compatible with most mobile devices), however it's fully realtime thanks to websockets and AJAX.
* Speed of trading. Bitcoin forum is full of anger against slowness of existing exchanges. ICBIT implements special high performance trading engine and uses high-performance "no SQL" database to eliminate the problem.
* No limits. Most of the existing exchanges put rather restrictive limitations and require users to prove their identity. ICBIT finds this totally unacceptable and does not put any limits at all.

==Futures==
Futures traded include:

Futures contracts on USD/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/BUQ3 BUQ3] (expires August 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUU3 BUU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUV3 BUV3] (expires October 14, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ3 BUZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on Bitcoin difficulty
* [https://icbit.se/DFU3 DFU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/DFZ3 DFZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on LTC/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/LBU3 LBU3] (expires September 17, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on S&P500 index
* [https://icbit.se/ESU3 ESU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Settled futures:
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ2 BUZ2] (Futures contract, expired December 15, 2012, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUH3 BUH3] (Futures contract, expired March 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/CLG3 CLG3] (Crude Oil Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/GDG3 GDG3] (Gold Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)

==Exchange==
Traded on the exchange are:

* BTC/USD
* BTC/RUB (Russian Ruble)

==Adding Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin deposits to the account's BTC EWallet. Funds are added to the account's wallet after six (6) confirmations. Transactions made by [[DeepBit]] mining pool are added instantly.

===USD===

There are no methods to add USD funds.

===RUB===

QIWI vouchers can be used to add funds to an account's Russian ruble EWallet.

==Widthraw Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin withdrawals from the account's BTC EWallet.

===USD===

There are no USD withdrawal methods.

===RUB===

Funds can be withdrawn from the account's Russian ruble EWallet as QIWI vouchers.

==Security==

Accounts can be protected where both login and any money withdrawal operation requires the one-time password (OTP) feature known as two-step authentication. A mobile smartphone with Google Authenticator is the most commonly used OTP device.

== History ==
First mentions of ICBIT appeared in June and July 2011 in the Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread at bitcointalk.org<ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=20377.msg319099#msg319099 Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread]</ref> and Bitcoin futures market discussion <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15818.msg250391#msg250391 Fireball's statement about ongoing futures exchange work]</ref>. By that time a very first version of the trading engine was developed.

A more detailed thread specific to ICBIT futures market was started <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg605807#msg605807 ICBIT derivatives market thread]</ref> in November, 2011. The first closed test of futures market was performed, and work on the new version of web trading client was started.

Finally in January, 2012 the currency exchange section went live <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60548.0 Bitcointalk announcement of a new exchange live testing]</ref>

==See Also==

* [[Buying bitcoins]]
* [[Selling bitcoins]]
* [[Bitcoin_Ladder#Top_Scams.2C_thefts.2C_hacks_and_heists|Top Scams, thefts, hacks and heists]]

== External Links ==
* [https://icbit.se ICBIT] website.
* [https://icbit.se/WebTrade/ Trading client] Direct link to the web trading client logon.
* At one point in the past, somebody who goes by the identifier "Fireball" [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414 voluntarily took the took one "bad customers" debt]. note: Fireball is also the main contributor to this wiki page and the apparent owner of icbit, so the post should be taken with a grain of salt.

== References ==
<references />

[[Category:Exchanges]]
[[Category:Stock_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Bonds_Markets]]
[[Category:Futures_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Investing]]

ICBIT

2013-09-26T04:24:21Z

FleaSpirit:

−''''' There have been complaints about several core practices at icbit.'''''−

-The primary complaint involves contract price manipulations that allow larger traders, including the site owner, to make profits from smaller traders regardless of bitcoin price movements.

Examples of contract manipulations, including screenshots, is included in some complaints, including https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845

Complaints directed to the owner of icbit, who also is the principle contributor to this wiki page, include https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0

−'''Any potential investor should thoroughly understand the issues raised in the complaints. If you are not sure please ask questions in a public forum like bitcointalk.org and do not invest until all questions are answered to your satisfaction.'''−<ref>[http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/icbitse-the-bucket-shop/ Article by Mircea Popescu, proprietor of MPEx]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125376.0 Bitcointalk "bucket shop" thread]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845 Bitcointalk "icbit warning" thread]</ref>

- - - - - - - -

ICBIT is a trading website which runs a few markets. Both the Exchange and Futures markets are live now.

This site is said[source?] to be founded by Fireball and [[DeepBit]] by combining best practices in high-performance trading and Bitcoin experience.

'''ICBIT is not an exchange''' since it does not act as a central counterparty. [http://web.archive.org/web/20130510221928/https://icbit.se/margincall According to their website] users '''are totally exposed to counterparty risk from other traders''' whose identities are concealed from them; the exchange does not pledge its own assets to back the full extent of the other side of a customer's position -- it pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)". Traders are not allowed to conduct background or reputation checks of any kind on these anonymous counterparties. ICBIT recently modified the linked page and it '''now contains self-contradictory information,''' such as "we do pledge our own assets, it's not always the case" and "your profitable position will be closed" at whatever price the exchange deems convenient rather than value-at-maturity. Since the exchange pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)" it is, by definition, not the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterparty counterparty] -- the "loosing [sic] traders" are the counterparty.

== Features ==
For its currency exchange section ICBIT makes an accent on the following:
* State-of-the-art technologies usage. Instead of using old, slow, polling-based algorithms ICBIT builds atop of the most up to date technologies. Its web trading client is in pure HTML and JavaScript (even compatible with most mobile devices), however it's fully realtime thanks to websockets and AJAX.
* Speed of trading. Bitcoin forum is full of anger against slowness of existing exchanges. ICBIT implements special high performance trading engine and uses high-performance "no SQL" database to eliminate the problem.
* No limits. Most of the existing exchanges put rather restrictive limitations and require users to prove their identity. ICBIT finds this totally unacceptable and does not put any limits at all.

==Futures==
Futures traded include:

Futures contracts on USD/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/BUQ3 BUQ3] (expires August 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUU3 BUU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUV3 BUV3] (expires October 14, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ3 BUZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on Bitcoin difficulty
* [https://icbit.se/DFU3 DFU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/DFZ3 DFZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on LTC/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/LBU3 LBU3] (expires September 17, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on S&P500 index
* [https://icbit.se/ESU3 ESU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Settled futures:
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ2 BUZ2] (Futures contract, expired December 15, 2012, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUH3 BUH3] (Futures contract, expired March 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/CLG3 CLG3] (Crude Oil Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/GDG3 GDG3] (Gold Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)

==Exchange==
Traded on the exchange are:

* BTC/USD
* BTC/RUB (Russian Ruble)

==Adding Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin deposits to the account's BTC EWallet. Funds are added to the account's wallet after six (6) confirmations. Transactions made by [[DeepBit]] mining pool are added instantly.

===USD===

There are no methods to add USD funds.

===RUB===

QIWI vouchers can be used to add funds to an account's Russian ruble EWallet.

==Widthraw Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin withdrawals from the account's BTC EWallet.

===USD===

There are no USD withdrawal methods.

===RUB===

Funds can be withdrawn from the account's Russian ruble EWallet as QIWI vouchers.

==Security==

Accounts can be protected where both login and any money withdrawal operation requires the one-time password (OTP) feature known as two-step authentication. A mobile smartphone with Google Authenticator is the most commonly used OTP device.

== History ==
First mentions of ICBIT appeared in June and July 2011 in the Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread at bitcointalk.org<ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=20377.msg319099#msg319099 Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread]</ref> and Bitcoin futures market discussion <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15818.msg250391#msg250391 Fireball's statement about ongoing futures exchange work]</ref>. By that time a very first version of the trading engine was developed.

A more detailed thread specific to ICBIT futures market was started <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg605807#msg605807 ICBIT derivatives market thread]</ref> in November, 2011. The first closed test of futures market was performed, and work on the new version of web trading client was started.

Finally in January, 2012 the currency exchange section went live <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60548.0 Bitcointalk announcement of a new exchange live testing]</ref>

==See Also==

* [[Buying bitcoins]]
* [[Selling bitcoins]]
* [[Bitcoin_Ladder#Top_Scams.2C_thefts.2C_hacks_and_heists|Top Scams, thefts, hacks and heists]]

== External Links ==
* [https://icbit.se ICBIT] website.
* [https://icbit.se/WebTrade/ Trading client] Direct link to the web trading client logon.
* At one point in the past, somebody who goes by the identifier "Fireball" [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414 voluntarily took the took one "bad customers" debt].

== References ==
<references />

[[Category:Exchanges]]
[[Category:Stock_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Bonds_Markets]]
[[Category:Futures_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Investing]]

ICBIT

2013-09-26T01:48:01Z

FleaSpirit:

−''''' There have been complaints about several core practices at icbit.'''''−

-The primary complaint involves contract price manipulations that allow larger traders, including the site owner, to make profits from smaller traders regardless of bitcoin price movements.

Examples of contract manipulations, including screenshots, is included in some complaints, including https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845

Complaints directed to the owner of icbit, who also is the principle contributor to this wiki page, include https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0

−'''Any potential investor should thoroughly understand the issues raised in the complaints. If you are not sure please ask questions in a public forum like bitcointalk.org and do not invest until all questions are answered to your satisfaction.'''−<ref>[http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/icbitse-the-bucket-shop/ Article by Mircea Popescu, proprietor of MPEx]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125376.0 Bitcointalk "bucket shop" thread]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845 Bitcointalk "icbit warning" thread]</ref>

- - - - - - - -

ICBIT is a trading website which runs a few markets. Both the Exchange and Futures markets are live now.

This site is said[source?] to be founded by Fireball and [[DeepBit]] by combining best practices in high-performance trading and Bitcoin experience.

'''ICBIT is not an exchange''' since it does not act as a central counterparty. [http://web.archive.org/web/20130510221928/https://icbit.se/margincall According to their website] users '''are totally exposed to counterparty risk from other traders''' whose identities are concealed from them; the exchange does not pledge its own assets to back the full extent of the other side of a customer's position -- it pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)". Traders are not allowed to conduct background or reputation checks of any kind on these anonymous counterparties. ICBIT recently modified the linked page and it '''now contains self-contradictory information,''' such as "we do pledge our own assets, it's not always the case" and "your profitable position will be closed" at whatever price the exchange deems convenient rather than value-at-maturity. Since the exchange pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)" it is, by definition, not the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterparty counterparty] -- the "loosing [sic] traders" are the counterparty.

== Features ==
For its currency exchange section ICBIT makes an accent on the following:
* State-of-the-art technologies usage. Instead of using old, slow, polling-based algorithms ICBIT builds atop of the most up to date technologies. Its web trading client is in pure HTML and JavaScript (even compatible with most mobile devices), however it's fully realtime thanks to websockets and AJAX.
* Speed of trading. Bitcoin forum is full of anger against slowness of existing exchanges. ICBIT implements special high performance trading engine and uses high-performance "no SQL" database to eliminate the problem.
* No limits. Most of the existing exchanges put rather restrictive limitations and require users to prove their identity. ICBIT finds this totally unacceptable and does not put any limits at all.

==Futures==
Futures traded include:

Futures contracts on USD/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/BUQ3 BUQ3] (expires August 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUU3 BUU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUV3 BUV3] (expires October 14, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ3 BUZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on Bitcoin difficulty
* [https://icbit.se/DFU3 DFU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/DFZ3 DFZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on LTC/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/LBU3 LBU3] (expires September 17, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on S&P500 index
* [https://icbit.se/ESU3 ESU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Settled futures:
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ2 BUZ2] (Futures contract, expired December 15, 2012, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUH3 BUH3] (Futures contract, expired March 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/CLG3 CLG3] (Crude Oil Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/GDG3 GDG3] (Gold Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)

==Exchange==
Traded on the exchange are:

* BTC/USD
* BTC/RUB (Russian Ruble)

==Adding Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin deposits to the account's BTC EWallet. Funds are added to the account's wallet after six (6) confirmations. Transactions made by [[DeepBit]] mining pool are added instantly.

===USD===

There are no methods to add USD funds.

===RUB===

QIWI vouchers can be used to add funds to an account's Russian ruble EWallet.

==Widthraw Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin withdrawals from the account's BTC EWallet.

===USD===

There are no USD withdrawal methods.

===RUB===

Funds can be withdrawn from the account's Russian ruble EWallet as QIWI vouchers.

==Security==

Accounts can be protected where both login and any money withdrawal operation requires the one-time password (OTP) feature known as two-step authentication. A mobile smartphone with Google Authenticator is the most commonly used OTP device.

== History ==
First mentions of ICBIT appeared in June and July 2011 in the Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread at bitcointalk.org<ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=20377.msg319099#msg319099 Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread]</ref> and Bitcoin futures market discussion <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15818.msg250391#msg250391 Fireball's statement about ongoing futures exchange work]</ref>. By that time a very first version of the trading engine was developed.

A more detailed thread specific to ICBIT futures market was started <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg605807#msg605807 ICBIT derivatives market thread]</ref> in November, 2011. The first closed test of futures market was performed, and work on the new version of web trading client was started.

Finally in January, 2012 the currency exchange section went live <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60548.0 Bitcointalk announcement of a new exchange live testing]</ref>

==See Also==

* [[Buying bitcoins]]
* [[Selling bitcoins]]

== External Links ==
* [https://icbit.se ICBIT] website.
* [https://icbit.se/WebTrade/ Trading client] Direct link to the web trading client logon.
* At one point in the past, somebody who goes by the identifier "Fireball" [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414 voluntarily took the took one "bad customers" debt].

== References ==
<references />

[[Category:Exchanges]]
[[Category:Stock_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Bonds_Markets]]
[[Category:Futures_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Investing]]

ICBIT

2013-09-25T22:04:45Z

FleaSpirit: Undo revision 41303 by Fireball (talk)

−''''' There are have been complaints about several core practices at icbit.'''''−

-The primary complaint involves contract price manipulations that allow larger traders, including the site owner, to make easy profits from smaller traders regardless of bitcoin price movements.

Documentation of contract manipulations, including screenshots, is included in some of the complaints, including https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845

Complaints directed to the owner of icbit, who also is the principle contributor to this wiki page, include https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0

−'''Any potential investor should thoroughly understand the issues raised in the complaints. If you are not sure please ask questions in a public forum like bitcointalk.org and do not invest until all questions are answered to your satisfaction.'''−<ref>[http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/icbitse-the-bucket-shop/ Article by Mircea Popescu, proprietor of MPEx]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125376.0 Bitcointalk "bucket shop" thread]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845 Bitcointalk "icbit warning" thread]</ref>

- - - - - - - -

ICBIT is a trading website which runs a few markets. Both the Exchange and Futures markets are live now.

This site is said[source?] to be founded by Fireball and [[DeepBit]] by combining best practices in high-performance trading and Bitcoin experience.

'''ICBIT is not an exchange''' since it does not act as a central counterparty. [http://web.archive.org/web/20130510221928/https://icbit.se/margincall According to their website] users '''are totally exposed to counterparty risk from other traders''' whose identities are concealed from them; the exchange does not pledge its own assets to back the full extent of the other side of a customer's position -- it pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)". Traders are not allowed to conduct background or reputation checks of any kind on these anonymous counterparties. ICBIT recently modified the linked page and it '''now contains self-contradictory information,''' such as "we do pledge our own assets, it's not always the case" and "your profitable position will be closed" at whatever price the exchange deems convenient rather than value-at-maturity. Since the exchange pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)" it is, by definition, not the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterparty counterparty] -- the "loosing [sic] traders" are the counterparty.

== Features ==
For its currency exchange section ICBIT makes an accent on the following:
* State-of-the-art technologies usage. Instead of using old, slow, polling-based algorithms ICBIT builds atop of the most up to date technologies. Its web trading client is in pure HTML and JavaScript (even compatible with most mobile devices), however it's fully realtime thanks to websockets and AJAX.
* Speed of trading. Bitcoin forum is full of anger against slowness of existing exchanges. ICBIT implements special high performance trading engine and uses high-performance "no SQL" database to eliminate the problem.
* No limits. Most of the existing exchanges put rather restrictive limitations and require users to prove their identity. ICBIT finds this totally unacceptable and does not put any limits at all.

==Futures==
Futures traded include:

Futures contracts on USD/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/BUQ3 BUQ3] (expires August 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUU3 BUU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUV3 BUV3] (expires October 14, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ3 BUZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on Bitcoin difficulty
* [https://icbit.se/DFU3 DFU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/DFZ3 DFZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on LTC/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/LBU3 LBU3] (expires September 17, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on S&P500 index
* [https://icbit.se/ESU3 ESU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Settled futures:
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ2 BUZ2] (Futures contract, expired December 15, 2012, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUH3 BUH3] (Futures contract, expired March 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/CLG3 CLG3] (Crude Oil Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/GDG3 GDG3] (Gold Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)

==Exchange==
Traded on the exchange are:

* BTC/USD
* BTC/RUB (Russian Ruble)

==Adding Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin deposits to the account's BTC EWallet. Funds are added to the account's wallet after six (6) confirmations. Transactions made by [[DeepBit]] mining pool are added instantly.

===USD===

There are no methods to add USD funds.

===RUB===

QIWI vouchers can be used to add funds to an account's Russian ruble EWallet.

==Widthraw Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin withdrawals from the account's BTC EWallet.

===USD===

There are no USD withdrawal methods.

===RUB===

Funds can be withdrawn from the account's Russian ruble EWallet as QIWI vouchers.

==Security==

Accounts can be protected where both login and any money withdrawal operation requires the one-time password (OTP) feature known as two-step authentication. A mobile smartphone with Google Authenticator is the most commonly used OTP device.

== History ==
First mentions of ICBIT appeared in June and July 2011 in the Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread at bitcointalk.org<ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=20377.msg319099#msg319099 Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread]</ref> and Bitcoin futures market discussion <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15818.msg250391#msg250391 Fireball's statement about ongoing futures exchange work]</ref>. By that time a very first version of the trading engine was developed.

A more detailed thread specific to ICBIT futures market was started <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg605807#msg605807 ICBIT derivatives market thread]</ref> in November, 2011. The first closed test of futures market was performed, and work on the new version of web trading client was started.

Finally in January, 2012 the currency exchange section went live <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60548.0 Bitcointalk announcement of a new exchange live testing]</ref>

==See Also==

* [[Buying bitcoins]]
* [[Selling bitcoins]]

== External Links ==
* [https://icbit.se ICBIT] website.
* [https://icbit.se/WebTrade/ Trading client] Direct link to the web trading client logon.
* At one point in the past, somebody who goes by the identifier "Fireball" [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414 voluntarily took the took one "bad customers" debt].

== References ==
<references />

[[Category:Exchanges]]
[[Category:Stock_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Bonds_Markets]]
[[Category:Futures_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Investing]]

ICBIT

2013-09-25T19:04:46Z

FleaSpirit: Undo revision 41298 by Fireball (talk)

−''''' There are have been complaints about several core practices at icbit.'''''−

-The primary complaint involves contract price manipulations that allow larger traders, including the site owner, to make easy profits from smaller traders regardless of bitcoin price movements.

Documentation of contract manipulations, including screenshots, is included in some of the complaints, including https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845

Complaints directed to the owner of icbit, who also is the principle contributor to this wiki page, include https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0

The owner of icbit has so far refused to publicly answer the most serious complaints and has refused to refund money to those who have lost money due to questionable practices that a reasonable person would not spot without observing the site over a period of time.

−'''Any potential investor should understand the issues raised in the complaints. If you are not sure please ask questions in a public forum like bitcointalk.org and do not invest until all questions are answered to your satisfaction.'''−<ref>[http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/icbitse-the-bucket-shop/ Article by Mircea Popescu, proprietor of MPEx]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125376.0 Bitcointalk "bucket shop" thread]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845 Bitcointalk "icbit warning" thread]</ref>

- - - - - - - -

ICBIT is a trading website which runs a few markets. Both the Exchange and Futures markets are live now.

This site is said[source?] to be founded by Fireball and [[DeepBit]] by combining best practices in high-performance trading and Bitcoin experience.

'''ICBIT is not an exchange''' since it does not act as a central counterparty. [http://web.archive.org/web/20130510221928/https://icbit.se/margincall According to their website] users '''are totally exposed to counterparty risk from other traders''' whose identities are concealed from them; the exchange does not pledge its own assets to back the full extent of the other side of a customer's position -- it pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)". Traders are not allowed to conduct background or reputation checks of any kind on these anonymous counterparties. ICBIT recently modified the linked page and it '''now contains self-contradictory information,''' such as "we do pledge our own assets, it's not always the case" and "your profitable position will be closed" at whatever price the exchange deems convenient rather than value-at-maturity. Since the exchange pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)" it is, by definition, not the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterparty counterparty] -- the "loosing [sic] traders" are the counterparty.

== Features ==
For its currency exchange section ICBIT makes an accent on the following:
* State-of-the-art technologies usage. Instead of using old, slow, polling-based algorithms ICBIT builds atop of the most up to date technologies. Its web trading client is in pure HTML and JavaScript (even compatible with most mobile devices), however it's fully realtime thanks to websockets and AJAX.
* Speed of trading. Bitcoin forum is full of anger against slowness of existing exchanges. ICBIT implements special high performance trading engine and uses high-performance "no SQL" database to eliminate the problem.
* No limits. Most of the existing exchanges put rather restrictive limitations and require users to prove their identity. ICBIT finds this totally unacceptable and does not put any limits at all.

==Futures==
Futures traded include:

Futures contracts on USD/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/BUQ3 BUQ3] (expires August 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUU3 BUU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUV3 BUV3] (expires October 14, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ3 BUZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on Bitcoin difficulty
* [https://icbit.se/DFU3 DFU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/DFZ3 DFZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on LTC/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/LBU3 LBU3] (expires September 17, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on S&P500 index
* [https://icbit.se/ESU3 ESU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Settled futures:
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ2 BUZ2] (Futures contract, expired December 15, 2012, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUH3 BUH3] (Futures contract, expired March 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/CLG3 CLG3] (Crude Oil Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/GDG3 GDG3] (Gold Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)

==Exchange==
Traded on the exchange are:

* BTC/USD
* BTC/RUB (Russian Ruble)

==Adding Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin deposits to the account's BTC EWallet. Funds are added to the account's wallet after six (6) confirmations. Transactions made by [[DeepBit]] mining pool are added instantly.

===USD===

There are no methods to add USD funds.

===RUB===

QIWI vouchers can be used to add funds to an account's Russian ruble EWallet.

==Widthraw Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin withdrawals from the account's BTC EWallet.

===USD===

There are no USD withdrawal methods.

===RUB===

Funds can be withdrawn from the account's Russian ruble EWallet as QIWI vouchers.

==Security==

Accounts can be protected where both login and any money withdrawal operation requires the one-time password (OTP) feature known as two-step authentication. A mobile smartphone with Google Authenticator is the most commonly used OTP device.

== History ==
First mentions of ICBIT appeared in June and July 2011 in the Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread at bitcointalk.org<ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=20377.msg319099#msg319099 Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread]</ref> and Bitcoin futures market discussion <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15818.msg250391#msg250391 Fireball's statement about ongoing futures exchange work]</ref>. By that time a very first version of the trading engine was developed.

A more detailed thread specific to ICBIT futures market was started <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg605807#msg605807 ICBIT derivatives market thread]</ref> in November, 2011. The first closed test of futures market was performed, and work on the new version of web trading client was started.

Finally in January, 2012 the currency exchange section went live <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60548.0 Bitcointalk announcement of a new exchange live testing]</ref>

==See Also==

* [[Buying bitcoins]]
* [[Selling bitcoins]]

== External Links ==
* [https://icbit.se ICBIT] website.
* [https://icbit.se/WebTrade/ Trading client] Direct link to the web trading client logon.
* At one point in the past, somebody who goes by the identifier "Fireball" [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414 voluntarily took the took one "bad customers" debt].

== References ==
<references />

[[Category:Exchanges]]
[[Category:Stock_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Bonds_Markets]]
[[Category:Futures_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Investing]]

ICBIT

2013-09-25T15:44:39Z

FleaSpirit: Undo revision 41294 by Fireball (talk)

−''''' There are have been complaints about several core practices at icbit.'''''−

-The primary complaint involves contract price manipulations that allow larger traders, including the site owner, to make easy profits from smaller traders regardless of bitcoin price movements.

Documentation of contract manipulations, including screenshots, is included in some of the complaints, including https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845

Complaints directed to the owner of icbit, who also is the principle contributor to this wiki page, include https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0

The owner of icbit has so far refused to publicly answer the most serious complaints and has refused to refund money to those who have lost money due to questionable practices that a reasonable person would not spot without observing the site over a period of time.

−'''Any potential investor should understand the issues raised in the complaints. If you are not sure please ask questions in a public forum like bitcointalk.org and do not invest until all questions are answered to your satisfaction.'''−<ref>[http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/icbitse-the-bucket-shop/ Article by Mircea Popescu, proprietor of MPEx]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125376.0 Bitcointalk "bucket shop" thread]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845 Bitcointalk "icbit warning" thread]</ref>

- - - - - - - -

ICBIT is a trading website which runs a few markets. Both the Exchange and Futures markets are live now.

This site is said[source?] to be founded by Fireball and [[DeepBit]] by combining best practices in high-performance trading and Bitcoin experience.

'''ICBIT is not an exchange''' since it does not act as a central counterparty. [http://web.archive.org/web/20130510221928/https://icbit.se/margincall According to their website] users '''are totally exposed to counterparty risk from other traders''' whose identities are concealed from them; the exchange does not pledge its own assets to back the full extent of the other side of a customer's position -- it pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)". Traders are not allowed to conduct background or reputation checks of any kind on these anonymous counterparties. ICBIT recently modified the linked page and it '''now contains self-contradictory information,''' such as "we do pledge our own assets, it's not always the case" and "your profitable position will be closed" at whatever price the exchange deems convenient rather than value-at-maturity. Since the exchange pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)" it is, by definition, not the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterparty counterparty] -- the "loosing [sic] traders" are the counterparty.

== Features ==
For its currency exchange section ICBIT makes an accent on the following:
* State-of-the-art technologies usage. Instead of using old, slow, polling-based algorithms ICBIT builds atop of the most up to date technologies. Its web trading client is in pure HTML and JavaScript (even compatible with most mobile devices), however it's fully realtime thanks to websockets and AJAX.
* Speed of trading. Bitcoin forum is full of anger against slowness of existing exchanges. ICBIT implements special high performance trading engine and uses high-performance "no SQL" database to eliminate the problem.
* No limits. Most of the existing exchanges put rather restrictive limitations and require users to prove their identity. ICBIT finds this totally unacceptable and does not put any limits at all.

==Futures==
Futures traded include:

Futures contracts on USD/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/BUQ3 BUQ3] (expires August 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUU3 BUU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUV3 BUV3] (expires October 14, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ3 BUZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on Bitcoin difficulty
* [https://icbit.se/DFU3 DFU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/DFZ3 DFZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on LTC/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/LBU3 LBU3] (expires September 17, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on S&P500 index
* [https://icbit.se/ESU3 ESU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Settled futures:
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ2 BUZ2] (Futures contract, expired December 15, 2012, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUH3 BUH3] (Futures contract, expired March 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/CLG3 CLG3] (Crude Oil Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/GDG3 GDG3] (Gold Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)

==Exchange==
Traded on the exchange are:

* BTC/USD
* BTC/RUB (Russian Ruble)

==Adding Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin deposits to the account's BTC EWallet. Funds are added to the account's wallet after six (6) confirmations. Transactions made by [[DeepBit]] mining pool are added instantly.

===USD===

There are no methods to add USD funds.

===RUB===

QIWI vouchers can be used to add funds to an account's Russian ruble EWallet.

==Widthraw Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin withdrawals from the account's BTC EWallet.

===USD===

There are no USD withdrawal methods.

===RUB===

Funds can be withdrawn from the account's Russian ruble EWallet as QIWI vouchers.

==Security==

Accounts can be protected where both login and any money withdrawal operation requires the one-time password (OTP) feature known as two-step authentication. A mobile smartphone with Google Authenticator is the most commonly used OTP device.

== History ==
First mentions of ICBIT appeared in June and July 2011 in the Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread at bitcointalk.org<ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=20377.msg319099#msg319099 Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread]</ref> and Bitcoin futures market discussion <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15818.msg250391#msg250391 Fireball's statement about ongoing futures exchange work]</ref>. By that time a very first version of the trading engine was developed.

A more detailed thread specific to ICBIT futures market was started <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg605807#msg605807 ICBIT derivatives market thread]</ref> in November, 2011. The first closed test of futures market was performed, and work on the new version of web trading client was started.

Finally in January, 2012 the currency exchange section went live <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60548.0 Bitcointalk announcement of a new exchange live testing]</ref>

==See Also==

* [[Buying bitcoins]]
* [[Selling bitcoins]]

== External Links ==
* [https://icbit.se ICBIT] website.
* [https://icbit.se/WebTrade/ Trading client] Direct link to the web trading client logon.
* At one point in the past, somebody who goes by the identifier "Fireball" [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414 voluntarily took the took one "bad customers" debt].

== References ==
<references />

[[Category:Exchanges]]
[[Category:Stock_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Bonds_Markets]]
[[Category:Futures_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Investing]]

ICBIT

2013-09-25T00:31:54Z

FleaSpirit: Undo revision 41285 by Fireball (talk)

−''''' There are have been complaints about several core practices at icbit.'''''−

-The primary complaint involves contract price manipulations that allow larger traders, including the site owner, to make easy profits from smaller traders regardless of bitcoin price movements.

Documentation of contract manipulations, including screenshots, is included in some of the complaints, including https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845

Complaints directed to the owner of icbit, who also is the principle contributor to this wiki page, include https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0

The owner of icbit has so far refused to publicly answer the most serious complaints and has refused to refund money to those who have lost money due to questionable practices that a reasonable person would not spot without observing the site over a period of time.

−'''Any potential investor should understand the issues raised in the complaints. If you are not sure please ask questions in a public forum like bitcointalk.org and do not invest until all questions are answered to your satisfaction.'''−<ref>[http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/icbitse-the-bucket-shop/ Article by Mircea Popescu, proprietor of MPEx]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125376.0 Bitcointalk "bucket shop" thread]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845 Bitcointalk "icbit warning" thread]</ref>

- - - - - - - -

ICBIT is a trading website which runs a few markets. Both the Exchange and Futures markets are live now.

This site is said[source?] to be founded by Fireball and [[DeepBit]] by combining best practices in high-performance trading and Bitcoin experience.

'''ICBIT is not an exchange''' since it does not act as a central counterparty. [http://web.archive.org/web/20130510221928/https://icbit.se/margincall According to their website] users '''are totally exposed to counterparty risk from other traders''' whose identities are concealed from them; the exchange does not pledge its own assets to back the full extent of the other side of a customer's position -- it pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)". Traders are not allowed to conduct background or reputation checks of any kind on these anonymous counterparties. ICBIT recently modified the linked page and it '''now contains self-contradictory information,''' such as "we do pledge our own assets, it's not always the case" and "your profitable position will be closed" at whatever price the exchange deems convenient rather than value-at-maturity. Since the exchange pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)" it is, by definition, not the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterparty counterparty] -- the "loosing [sic] traders" are the counterparty.

== Features ==
For its currency exchange section ICBIT makes an accent on the following:
* State-of-the-art technologies usage. Instead of using old, slow, polling-based algorithms ICBIT builds atop of the most up to date technologies. Its web trading client is in pure HTML and JavaScript (even compatible with most mobile devices), however it's fully realtime thanks to websockets and AJAX.
* Speed of trading. Bitcoin forum is full of anger against slowness of existing exchanges. ICBIT implements special high performance trading engine and uses high-performance "no SQL" database to eliminate the problem.
* No limits. Most of the existing exchanges put rather restrictive limitations and require users to prove their identity. ICBIT finds this totally unacceptable and does not put any limits at all.

==Futures==
Futures traded include:

Futures contracts on USD/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/BUQ3 BUQ3] (expires August 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUU3 BUU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUV3 BUV3] (expires October 14, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ3 BUZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on Bitcoin difficulty
* [https://icbit.se/DFU3 DFU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/DFZ3 DFZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on LTC/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/LBU3 LBU3] (expires September 17, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on S&P500 index
* [https://icbit.se/ESU3 ESU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Settled futures:
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ2 BUZ2] (Futures contract, expired December 15, 2012, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUH3 BUH3] (Futures contract, expired March 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/CLG3 CLG3] (Crude Oil Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/GDG3 GDG3] (Gold Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)

==Exchange==
Traded on the exchange are:

* BTC/USD
* BTC/RUB (Russian Ruble)

==Adding Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin deposits to the account's BTC EWallet. Funds are added to the account's wallet after six (6) confirmations. Transactions made by [[DeepBit]] mining pool are added instantly.

===USD===

There are no methods to add USD funds.

===RUB===

QIWI vouchers can be used to add funds to an account's Russian ruble EWallet.

==Widthraw Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin withdrawals from the account's BTC EWallet.

===USD===

There are no USD withdrawal methods.

===RUB===

Funds can be withdrawn from the account's Russian ruble EWallet as QIWI vouchers.

==Security==

Accounts can be protected where both login and any money withdrawal operation requires the one-time password (OTP) feature known as two-step authentication. A mobile smartphone with Google Authenticator is the most commonly used OTP device.

== History ==
First mentions of ICBIT appeared in June and July 2011 in the Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread at bitcointalk.org<ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=20377.msg319099#msg319099 Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread]</ref> and Bitcoin futures market discussion <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15818.msg250391#msg250391 Fireball's statement about ongoing futures exchange work]</ref>. By that time a very first version of the trading engine was developed.

A more detailed thread specific to ICBIT futures market was started <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg605807#msg605807 ICBIT derivatives market thread]</ref> in November, 2011. The first closed test of futures market was performed, and work on the new version of web trading client was started.

Finally in January, 2012 the currency exchange section went live <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60548.0 Bitcointalk announcement of a new exchange live testing]</ref>

==See Also==

* [[Buying bitcoins]]
* [[Selling bitcoins]]

== External Links ==
* [https://icbit.se ICBIT] website.
* [https://icbit.se/WebTrade/ Trading client] Direct link to the web trading client logon.
* At one point in the past, somebody who goes by the identifier "Fireball" [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414 voluntarily took the took one "bad customers" debt].

== References ==
<references />

[[Category:Exchanges]]
[[Category:Stock_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Bonds_Markets]]
[[Category:Futures_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Investing]]

ICBIT

2013-09-24T22:03:55Z

FleaSpirit:

−''''' There are have been complaints about several core practices at icbit.'''''−

-The primary complaint involves contract price manipulations that allow larger traders, including the site owner, to make easy profits from smaller traders regardless of bitcoin price movements.

Documentation of contract manipulations, including screenshots, is included in some of the complaints, including https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845

Complaints directed to the owner of icbit, who also is the principle contributor to this wiki page, include https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0

The owner of icbit has so far refused to publicly answer the most serious complaints and has refused to refund money to those who have lost money due to questionable practices that a reasonable person would not spot without observing the site over a period of time.

−'''Any potential investor should understand the issues raised in the complaints. If you are not sure please ask questions in a public forum like bitcointalk.org and do not invest until all questions are answered to your satisfaction.'''−<ref>[http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/icbitse-the-bucket-shop/ Article by Mircea Popescu, proprietor of MPEx]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125376.0 Bitcointalk "bucket shop" thread]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845 Bitcointalk "icbit warning" thread]</ref>

- - - - - - - -

ICBIT is a trading website which runs a few markets. Both the Exchange and Futures markets are live now.

This site is said[source?] to be founded by Fireball and [[DeepBit]] by combining best practices in high-performance trading and Bitcoin experience.

'''ICBIT is not an exchange''' since it does not act as a central counterparty. [http://web.archive.org/web/20130510221928/https://icbit.se/margincall According to their website] users '''are totally exposed to counterparty risk from other traders''' whose identities are concealed from them; the exchange does not pledge its own assets to back the full extent of the other side of a customer's position -- it pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)". Traders are not allowed to conduct background or reputation checks of any kind on these anonymous counterparties. ICBIT recently modified the linked page and it '''now contains self-contradictory information,''' such as "we do pledge our own assets, it's not always the case" and "your profitable position will be closed" at whatever price the exchange deems convenient rather than value-at-maturity. Since the exchange pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)" it is, by definition, not the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterparty counterparty] -- the "loosing [sic] traders" are the counterparty.

== Features ==
For its currency exchange section ICBIT makes an accent on the following:
* State-of-the-art technologies usage. Instead of using old, slow, polling-based algorithms ICBIT builds atop of the most up to date technologies. Its web trading client is in pure HTML and JavaScript (even compatible with most mobile devices), however it's fully realtime thanks to websockets and AJAX.
* Speed of trading. Bitcoin forum is full of anger against slowness of existing exchanges. ICBIT implements special high performance trading engine and uses high-performance "no SQL" database to eliminate the problem.
* No limits. Most of the existing exchanges put rather restrictive limitations and require users to prove their identity. ICBIT finds this totally unacceptable and does not put any limits at all.

==Futures==
Futures traded include:

Futures contracts on USD/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/BUQ3 BUQ3] (expires August 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUU3 BUU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUV3 BUV3] (expires October 14, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ3 BUZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on Bitcoin difficulty
* [https://icbit.se/DFU3 DFU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/DFZ3 DFZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on LTC/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/LBU3 LBU3] (expires September 17, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on S&P500 index
* [https://icbit.se/ESU3 ESU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Settled futures:
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ2 BUZ2] (Futures contract, expired December 15, 2012, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUH3 BUH3] (Futures contract, expired March 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/CLG3 CLG3] (Crude Oil Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/GDG3 GDG3] (Gold Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)

==Exchange==
Traded on the exchange are:

* BTC/USD
* BTC/RUB (Russian Ruble)

==Adding Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin deposits to the account's BTC EWallet. Funds are added to the account's wallet after six (6) confirmations. Transactions made by [[DeepBit]] mining pool are added instantly.

===USD===

There are no methods to add USD funds.

===RUB===

QIWI vouchers can be used to add funds to an account's Russian ruble EWallet.

==Widthraw Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin withdrawals from the account's BTC EWallet.

===USD===

There are no USD withdrawal methods.

===RUB===

Funds can be withdrawn from the account's Russian ruble EWallet as QIWI vouchers.

==Security==

Accounts can be protected where both login and any money withdrawal operation requires the one-time password (OTP) feature known as two-step authentication. A mobile smartphone with Google Authenticator is the most commonly used OTP device.

== History ==
First mentions of ICBIT appeared in June and July 2011 in the Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread at bitcointalk.org<ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=20377.msg319099#msg319099 Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread]</ref> and Bitcoin futures market discussion <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15818.msg250391#msg250391 Fireball's statement about ongoing futures exchange work]</ref>. By that time a very first version of the trading engine was developed.

A more detailed thread specific to ICBIT futures market was started <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg605807#msg605807 ICBIT derivatives market thread]</ref> in November, 2011. The first closed test of futures market was performed, and work on the new version of web trading client was started.

Finally in January, 2012 the currency exchange section went live <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60548.0 Bitcointalk announcement of a new exchange live testing]</ref>

==See Also==

* [[Buying bitcoins]]
* [[Selling bitcoins]]

== External Links ==
* [https://icbit.se ICBIT] website.
* [https://icbit.se/WebTrade/ Trading client] Direct link to the web trading client logon.
* At one point in the past, somebody who goes by the identifier "Fireball" [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414 voluntarily took the took one "bad customers" debt].

== References ==
<references />

[[Category:Exchanges]]
[[Category:Stock_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Bonds_Markets]]
[[Category:Futures_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Investing]]

ICBIT

2013-09-24T22:00:39Z

FleaSpirit:

−''''' There are have been complaints about several core practices at icbit.'''''−

-The primary complaint involves contract price manipulations that allow larger traders, including the site owner, to make easy profits from smaller traders regardless of bitcoin price movements.

Documentation of contract manipulations, including screenshots, is included in some of the complaints, including https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845

Complaints directed to the owner of icbit, who also is the principle contributor to this wiki page, include https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0

The owner of icbit has so far refused to publicly answer the most serious complaints and has refused to refund money to those who have lost money due to practices that a reasonable person would not spot without observing the site for a period of time.

−'''Any potential investor should understand the issues raised in the complaints. If you are not sure please ask questions in a public forum like bitcointalk.org and do not invest until all questions are answered to your satisfaction.'''−<ref>[http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/icbitse-the-bucket-shop/ Article by Mircea Popescu, proprietor of MPEx]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125376.0 Bitcointalk "bucket shop" thread]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845 Bitcointalk "icbit warning" thread]</ref>

- - - - - - - -

ICBIT is a trading website which runs a few markets. Both the Exchange and Futures markets are live now.

This site is said[source?] to be founded by Fireball and [[DeepBit]] by combining best practices in high-performance trading and Bitcoin experience.

'''ICBIT is not an exchange''' since it does not act as a central counterparty. [http://web.archive.org/web/20130510221928/https://icbit.se/margincall According to their website] users '''are totally exposed to counterparty risk from other traders''' whose identities are concealed from them; the exchange does not pledge its own assets to back the full extent of the other side of a customer's position -- it pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)". Traders are not allowed to conduct background or reputation checks of any kind on these anonymous counterparties. ICBIT recently modified the linked page and it '''now contains self-contradictory information,''' such as "we do pledge our own assets, it's not always the case" and "your profitable position will be closed" at whatever price the exchange deems convenient rather than value-at-maturity. Since the exchange pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)" it is, by definition, not the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterparty counterparty] -- the "loosing [sic] traders" are the counterparty.

== Features ==
For its currency exchange section ICBIT makes an accent on the following:
* State-of-the-art technologies usage. Instead of using old, slow, polling-based algorithms ICBIT builds atop of the most up to date technologies. Its web trading client is in pure HTML and JavaScript (even compatible with most mobile devices), however it's fully realtime thanks to websockets and AJAX.
* Speed of trading. Bitcoin forum is full of anger against slowness of existing exchanges. ICBIT implements special high performance trading engine and uses high-performance "no SQL" database to eliminate the problem.
* No limits. Most of the existing exchanges put rather restrictive limitations and require users to prove their identity. ICBIT finds this totally unacceptable and does not put any limits at all.

==Futures==
Futures traded include:

Futures contracts on USD/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/BUQ3 BUQ3] (expires August 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUU3 BUU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUV3 BUV3] (expires October 14, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ3 BUZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on Bitcoin difficulty
* [https://icbit.se/DFU3 DFU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/DFZ3 DFZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on LTC/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/LBU3 LBU3] (expires September 17, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on S&P500 index
* [https://icbit.se/ESU3 ESU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Settled futures:
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ2 BUZ2] (Futures contract, expired December 15, 2012, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUH3 BUH3] (Futures contract, expired March 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/CLG3 CLG3] (Crude Oil Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/GDG3 GDG3] (Gold Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)

==Exchange==
Traded on the exchange are:

* BTC/USD
* BTC/RUB (Russian Ruble)

==Adding Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin deposits to the account's BTC EWallet. Funds are added to the account's wallet after six (6) confirmations. Transactions made by [[DeepBit]] mining pool are added instantly.

===USD===

There are no methods to add USD funds.

===RUB===

QIWI vouchers can be used to add funds to an account's Russian ruble EWallet.

==Widthraw Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin withdrawals from the account's BTC EWallet.

===USD===

There are no USD withdrawal methods.

===RUB===

Funds can be withdrawn from the account's Russian ruble EWallet as QIWI vouchers.

==Security==

Accounts can be protected where both login and any money withdrawal operation requires the one-time password (OTP) feature known as two-step authentication. A mobile smartphone with Google Authenticator is the most commonly used OTP device.

== History ==
First mentions of ICBIT appeared in June and July 2011 in the Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread at bitcointalk.org<ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=20377.msg319099#msg319099 Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread]</ref> and Bitcoin futures market discussion <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15818.msg250391#msg250391 Fireball's statement about ongoing futures exchange work]</ref>. By that time a very first version of the trading engine was developed.

A more detailed thread specific to ICBIT futures market was started <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg605807#msg605807 ICBIT derivatives market thread]</ref> in November, 2011. The first closed test of futures market was performed, and work on the new version of web trading client was started.

Finally in January, 2012 the currency exchange section went live <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60548.0 Bitcointalk announcement of a new exchange live testing]</ref>

==See Also==

* [[Buying bitcoins]]
* [[Selling bitcoins]]

== External Links ==
* [https://icbit.se ICBIT] website.
* [https://icbit.se/WebTrade/ Trading client] Direct link to the web trading client logon.
* At one point in the past, somebody who goes by the identifier "Fireball" [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414 voluntarily took the took one "bad customers" debt].

== References ==
<references />

[[Category:Exchanges]]
[[Category:Stock_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Bonds_Markets]]
[[Category:Futures_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Investing]]

ICBIT

2013-09-24T21:59:52Z

FleaSpirit: Undo revision 41275 by Fireball (talk)

−''''' There are have been complaints about several core practices at icbit.'''''−

-The primary complaint involves contract price manipulations that allow larger traders, including the site owner, to make easy profits from smaller traders regardless of bitcoin price movements.

Documentation of contract manipulations, including screenshots, is included in some of the complaints, including https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845

Complaints directed to the owner of icbit, who also is the principle contributor to this wiki page, include https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0

The owner of icbit has so far refused to publicly answer complaints and has refused to refund money to those who have lost money due to practices that a reasonable person would not spot without observing the site for a period of time.

−'''Any potential investor should understand the issues raised in the complaints. If you are not sure please ask questions in a public forum like bitcointalk.org and do not invest until all questions are answered to your satisfaction.'''−<ref>[http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/icbitse-the-bucket-shop/ Article by Mircea Popescu, proprietor of MPEx]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125376.0 Bitcointalk "bucket shop" thread]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845 Bitcointalk "icbit warning" thread]</ref>

- - - - - - - -

ICBIT is a trading website which runs a few markets. Both the Exchange and Futures markets are live now.

This site is said[source?] to be founded by Fireball and [[DeepBit]] by combining best practices in high-performance trading and Bitcoin experience.

'''ICBIT is not an exchange''' since it does not act as a central counterparty. [http://web.archive.org/web/20130510221928/https://icbit.se/margincall According to their website] users '''are totally exposed to counterparty risk from other traders''' whose identities are concealed from them; the exchange does not pledge its own assets to back the full extent of the other side of a customer's position -- it pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)". Traders are not allowed to conduct background or reputation checks of any kind on these anonymous counterparties. ICBIT recently modified the linked page and it '''now contains self-contradictory information,''' such as "we do pledge our own assets, it's not always the case" and "your profitable position will be closed" at whatever price the exchange deems convenient rather than value-at-maturity. Since the exchange pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)" it is, by definition, not the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterparty counterparty] -- the "loosing [sic] traders" are the counterparty.

== Features ==
For its currency exchange section ICBIT makes an accent on the following:
* State-of-the-art technologies usage. Instead of using old, slow, polling-based algorithms ICBIT builds atop of the most up to date technologies. Its web trading client is in pure HTML and JavaScript (even compatible with most mobile devices), however it's fully realtime thanks to websockets and AJAX.
* Speed of trading. Bitcoin forum is full of anger against slowness of existing exchanges. ICBIT implements special high performance trading engine and uses high-performance "no SQL" database to eliminate the problem.
* No limits. Most of the existing exchanges put rather restrictive limitations and require users to prove their identity. ICBIT finds this totally unacceptable and does not put any limits at all.

==Futures==
Futures traded include:

Futures contracts on USD/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/BUQ3 BUQ3] (expires August 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUU3 BUU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUV3 BUV3] (expires October 14, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ3 BUZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on Bitcoin difficulty
* [https://icbit.se/DFU3 DFU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/DFZ3 DFZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on LTC/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/LBU3 LBU3] (expires September 17, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on S&P500 index
* [https://icbit.se/ESU3 ESU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Settled futures:
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ2 BUZ2] (Futures contract, expired December 15, 2012, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUH3 BUH3] (Futures contract, expired March 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/CLG3 CLG3] (Crude Oil Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/GDG3 GDG3] (Gold Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)

==Exchange==
Traded on the exchange are:

* BTC/USD
* BTC/RUB (Russian Ruble)

==Adding Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin deposits to the account's BTC EWallet. Funds are added to the account's wallet after six (6) confirmations. Transactions made by [[DeepBit]] mining pool are added instantly.

===USD===

There are no methods to add USD funds.

===RUB===

QIWI vouchers can be used to add funds to an account's Russian ruble EWallet.

==Widthraw Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin withdrawals from the account's BTC EWallet.

===USD===

There are no USD withdrawal methods.

===RUB===

Funds can be withdrawn from the account's Russian ruble EWallet as QIWI vouchers.

==Security==

Accounts can be protected where both login and any money withdrawal operation requires the one-time password (OTP) feature known as two-step authentication. A mobile smartphone with Google Authenticator is the most commonly used OTP device.

== History ==
First mentions of ICBIT appeared in June and July 2011 in the Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread at bitcointalk.org<ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=20377.msg319099#msg319099 Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread]</ref> and Bitcoin futures market discussion <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15818.msg250391#msg250391 Fireball's statement about ongoing futures exchange work]</ref>. By that time a very first version of the trading engine was developed.

A more detailed thread specific to ICBIT futures market was started <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg605807#msg605807 ICBIT derivatives market thread]</ref> in November, 2011. The first closed test of futures market was performed, and work on the new version of web trading client was started.

Finally in January, 2012 the currency exchange section went live <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60548.0 Bitcointalk announcement of a new exchange live testing]</ref>

==See Also==

* [[Buying bitcoins]]
* [[Selling bitcoins]]

== External Links ==
* [https://icbit.se ICBIT] website.
* [https://icbit.se/WebTrade/ Trading client] Direct link to the web trading client logon.
* At one point in the past, somebody who goes by the identifier "Fireball" [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414 voluntarily took the took one "bad customers" debt].

== References ==
<references />

[[Category:Exchanges]]
[[Category:Stock_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Bonds_Markets]]
[[Category:Futures_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Investing]]

ICBIT

2013-09-23T22:17:05Z

FleaSpirit: Undo revision 41249 by Fireball (talk)

−''''' There are have been complaints about several core practices at icbit.'''''−

-The primary complaint involves contract price manipulations that allow larger traders, including the site owner, to make easy profits from smaller traders regardless of bitcoin price movements.

Documentation of contract manipulations, including screenshots, is included in some of the complaints, including https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845

Complaints directed to the owner of icbit, who also is the principle contributor to this wiki page, include https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0

The owner of icbit has so far refused to publicly answer complaints and has refused to refund money to those who have lost money due to practices that a reasonable person would not spot without observing the site for a period of time.

−'''Any potential investor should understand the issues raised in the complaints. If you are not sure please ask questions in a public forum like bitcointalk.org and do not invest until all questions are answered to your satisfaction.'''−<ref>[http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/icbitse-the-bucket-shop/ Article by Mircea Popescu, proprietor of MPEx]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125376.0 Bitcointalk "bucket shop" thread]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845 Bitcointalk "icbit warning" thread]</ref>

- - - - - - - -

ICBIT is a trading website which runs a few markets. Both the Exchange and Futures markets are live now.

This site is said[source?] to be founded by Fireball and [[DeepBit]] by combining best practices in high-performance trading and Bitcoin experience.

'''ICBIT is not an exchange''' since it does not act as a central counterparty. [http://web.archive.org/web/20130510221928/https://icbit.se/margincall According to their website] users '''are totally exposed to counterparty risk from other traders''' whose identities are concealed from them; the exchange does not pledge its own assets to back the full extent of the other side of a customer's position -- it pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)". Traders are not allowed to conduct background or reputation checks of any kind on these anonymous counterparties. ICBIT recently modified the linked page and it '''now contains self-contradictory information,''' such as "we do pledge our own assets, it's not always the case" and "your profitable position will be closed" at whatever price the exchange deems convenient rather than value-at-maturity. Since the exchange pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)" it is, by definition, not the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterparty counterparty] -- the "loosing [sic] traders" are the counterparty.

== Features ==
For its currency exchange section ICBIT makes an accent on the following:
* State-of-the-art technologies usage. Instead of using old, slow, polling-based algorithms ICBIT builds atop of the most up to date technologies. Its web trading client is in pure HTML and JavaScript (even compatible with most mobile devices), however it's fully realtime thanks to websockets and AJAX.
* Speed of trading. Bitcoin forum is full of anger against slowness of existing exchanges. ICBIT implements special high performance trading engine and uses high-performance "no SQL" database to eliminate the problem.
* No limits. Most of the existing exchanges put rather restrictive limitations and require users to prove their identity. ICBIT finds this totally unacceptable and does not put any limits at all.

==Futures==
Futures traded include:

Futures contracts on USD/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/BUQ3 BUQ3] (expires August 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUU3 BUU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUV3 BUV3] (expires October 14, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ3 BUZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on Bitcoin difficulty
* [https://icbit.se/DFU3 DFU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/DFZ3 DFZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on LTC/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/LBU3 LBU3] (expires September 17, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on S&P500 index
* [https://icbit.se/ESU3 ESU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Settled futures:
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ2 BUZ2] (Futures contract, expired December 15, 2012, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUH3 BUH3] (Futures contract, expired March 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/CLG3 CLG3] (Crude Oil Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/GDG3 GDG3] (Gold Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)

==Exchange==
Traded on the exchange are:

* BTC/USD
* BTC/RUB (Russian Ruble)

==Adding Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin deposits to the account's BTC EWallet. Funds are added to the account's wallet after six (6) confirmations. Transactions made by [[DeepBit]] mining pool are added instantly.

===USD===

There are no methods to add USD funds.

===RUB===

QIWI vouchers can be used to add funds to an account's Russian ruble EWallet.

==Widthraw Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin withdrawals from the account's BTC EWallet.

===USD===

There are no USD withdrawal methods.

===RUB===

Funds can be withdrawn from the account's Russian ruble EWallet as QIWI vouchers.

==Security==

Accounts can be protected where both login and any money withdrawal operation requires the one-time password (OTP) feature known as two-step authentication. A mobile smartphone with Google Authenticator is the most commonly used OTP device.

== History ==
First mentions of ICBIT appeared in June and July 2011 in the Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread at bitcointalk.org<ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=20377.msg319099#msg319099 Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread]</ref> and Bitcoin futures market discussion <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15818.msg250391#msg250391 Fireball's statement about ongoing futures exchange work]</ref>. By that time a very first version of the trading engine was developed.

A more detailed thread specific to ICBIT futures market was started <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg605807#msg605807 ICBIT derivatives market thread]</ref> in November, 2011. The first closed test of futures market was performed, and work on the new version of web trading client was started.

Finally in January, 2012 the currency exchange section went live <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60548.0 Bitcointalk announcement of a new exchange live testing]</ref>

==See Also==

* [[Buying bitcoins]]
* [[Selling bitcoins]]

== External Links ==
* [https://icbit.se ICBIT] website.
* [https://icbit.se/WebTrade/ Trading client] Direct link to the web trading client logon.
* At one point in the past, somebody who goes by the identifier "Fireball" [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414 voluntarily took the took one "bad customers" debt].

== References ==
<references />

[[Category:Exchanges]]
[[Category:Stock_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Bonds_Markets]]
[[Category:Futures_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Investing]]

ICBIT

2013-09-23T18:10:17Z

FleaSpirit: Undo revision 41238 by Fireball (talk)

−''''' There are have been complaints about several core practices at icbit.'''''−

-The primary complaint involves contract price manipulations that allow larger traders, including the site owner, to make easy profits from smaller traders regardless of bitcoin price movements.

Documentation of contract manipulations, including screenshots, is included in some of the complaints, including https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845

Complaints directed to the owner of icbit, who also is the principle contributor to this wiki page, include https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0

The owner of icbit has so far refused to publicly answer complaints and has refused to refund money to those who have lost money due to practices that a reasonable person would not spot without observing the site for a period of time.

−'''Any potential investor should understand the issues raised in the complaints. If you are not sure please ask questions in a public forum like bitcointalk.org and do not invest until all questions are answered to your satisfaction.'''−<ref>[http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/icbitse-the-bucket-shop/ Article by Mircea Popescu, proprietor of MPEx]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125376.0 Bitcointalk "bucket shop" thread]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845 Bitcointalk "icbit warning" thread]</ref>

- - - - - - - -

ICBIT is a trading website which runs a few markets. Both the Exchange and Futures markets are live now.

This site is said[source?] to be founded by Fireball and [[DeepBit]] by combining best practices in high-performance trading and Bitcoin experience.

'''ICBIT is not an exchange''' since it does not act as a central counterparty. [http://web.archive.org/web/20130510221928/https://icbit.se/margincall According to their website] users '''are totally exposed to counterparty risk from other traders''' whose identities are concealed from them; the exchange does not pledge its own assets to back the full extent of the other side of a customer's position -- it pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)". Traders are not allowed to conduct background or reputation checks of any kind on these anonymous counterparties. ICBIT recently modified the linked page and it '''now contains self-contradictory information,''' such as "we do pledge our own assets, it's not always the case" and "your profitable position will be closed" at whatever price the exchange deems convenient rather than value-at-maturity. Since the exchange pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)" it is, by definition, not the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterparty counterparty] -- the "loosing [sic] traders" are the counterparty.

== Features ==
For its currency exchange section ICBIT makes an accent on the following:
* State-of-the-art technologies usage. Instead of using old, slow, polling-based algorithms ICBIT builds atop of the most up to date technologies. Its web trading client is in pure HTML and JavaScript (even compatible with most mobile devices), however it's fully realtime thanks to websockets and AJAX.
* Speed of trading. Bitcoin forum is full of anger against slowness of existing exchanges. ICBIT implements special high performance trading engine and uses high-performance "no SQL" database to eliminate the problem.
* No limits. Most of the existing exchanges put rather restrictive limitations and require users to prove their identity. ICBIT finds this totally unacceptable and does not put any limits at all.

==Futures==
Futures traded include:

Futures contracts on USD/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/BUQ3 BUQ3] (expires August 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUU3 BUU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUV3 BUV3] (expires October 14, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ3 BUZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on Bitcoin difficulty
* [https://icbit.se/DFU3 DFU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/DFZ3 DFZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on LTC/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/LBU3 LBU3] (expires September 17, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on S&P500 index
* [https://icbit.se/ESU3 ESU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Settled futures:
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ2 BUZ2] (Futures contract, expired December 15, 2012, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUH3 BUH3] (Futures contract, expired March 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/CLG3 CLG3] (Crude Oil Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/GDG3 GDG3] (Gold Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)

==Exchange==
Traded on the exchange are:

* BTC/USD
* BTC/RUB (Russian Ruble)

==Adding Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin deposits to the account's BTC EWallet. Funds are added to the account's wallet after six (6) confirmations. Transactions made by [[DeepBit]] mining pool are added instantly.

===USD===

There are no methods to add USD funds.

===RUB===

QIWI vouchers can be used to add funds to an account's Russian ruble EWallet.

==Widthraw Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin withdrawals from the account's BTC EWallet.

===USD===

There are no USD withdrawal methods.

===RUB===

Funds can be withdrawn from the account's Russian ruble EWallet as QIWI vouchers.

==Security==

Accounts can be protected where both login and any money withdrawal operation requires the one-time password (OTP) feature known as two-step authentication. A mobile smartphone with Google Authenticator is the most commonly used OTP device.

== History ==
First mentions of ICBIT appeared in June and July 2011 in the Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread at bitcointalk.org<ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=20377.msg319099#msg319099 Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread]</ref> and Bitcoin futures market discussion <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15818.msg250391#msg250391 Fireball's statement about ongoing futures exchange work]</ref>. By that time a very first version of the trading engine was developed.

A more detailed thread specific to ICBIT futures market was started <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg605807#msg605807 ICBIT derivatives market thread]</ref> in November, 2011. The first closed test of futures market was performed, and work on the new version of web trading client was started.

Finally in January, 2012 the currency exchange section went live <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60548.0 Bitcointalk announcement of a new exchange live testing]</ref>

==See Also==

* [[Buying bitcoins]]
* [[Selling bitcoins]]

== External Links ==
* [https://icbit.se ICBIT] website.
* [https://icbit.se/WebTrade/ Trading client] Direct link to the web trading client logon.
* At one point in the past, somebody who goes by the identifier "Fireball" [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414 voluntarily took the took one "bad customers" debt].

== References ==
<references />

[[Category:Exchanges]]
[[Category:Stock_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Bonds_Markets]]
[[Category:Futures_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Investing]]

ICBIT

2013-09-23T15:42:55Z

FleaSpirit: Undo revision 41236 by Fireball (talk)

−''''' There are have been complaints about several core practices at icbit.'''''−

-The primary complaint involves contract price manipulations that allow larger traders, including the site owner, to make easy profits from smaller traders regardless of bitcoin price movements.

Documentation of contract manipulations, including screenshots, is included in some of the complaints, including https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845

Complaints directed to the owner of icbit, who also is the principle contributor to this wiki page, include https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0

The owner of icbit has so far refused to publicly answer complaints and has refused to refund money to those who have lost money due to practices that a reasonable person would not spot without observing the site for a period of time.

−'''Any potential investor should understand the issues raised in the complaints. If you are not sure please ask questions in a public forum like bitcointalk.org and do not invest until all questions are answered to your satisfaction.'''−<ref>[http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/icbitse-the-bucket-shop/ Article by Mircea Popescu, proprietor of MPEx]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125376.0 Bitcointalk "bucket shop" thread]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845 Bitcointalk "icbit warning" thread]</ref>

- - - - - - - -

ICBIT is a trading website which runs a few markets. Both the Exchange and Futures markets are live now.

This site is said[source?] to be founded by Fireball and [[DeepBit]] by combining best practices in high-performance trading and Bitcoin experience.

'''ICBIT is not an exchange''' since it does not act as a central counterparty. [http://web.archive.org/web/20130510221928/https://icbit.se/margincall According to their website] users '''are totally exposed to counterparty risk from other traders''' whose identities are concealed from them; the exchange does not pledge its own assets to back the full extent of the other side of a customer's position -- it pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)". Traders are not allowed to conduct background or reputation checks of any kind on these anonymous counterparties. ICBIT recently modified the linked page and it '''now contains self-contradictory information,''' such as "we do pledge our own assets, it's not always the case" and "your profitable position will be closed" at whatever price the exchange deems convenient rather than value-at-maturity. Since the exchange pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)" it is, by definition, not the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterparty counterparty] -- the "loosing [sic] traders" are the counterparty.

== Features ==
For its currency exchange section ICBIT makes an accent on the following:
* State-of-the-art technologies usage. Instead of using old, slow, polling-based algorithms ICBIT builds atop of the most up to date technologies. Its web trading client is in pure HTML and JavaScript (even compatible with most mobile devices), however it's fully realtime thanks to websockets and AJAX.
* Speed of trading. Bitcoin forum is full of anger against slowness of existing exchanges. ICBIT implements special high performance trading engine and uses high-performance "no SQL" database to eliminate the problem.
* No limits. Most of the existing exchanges put rather restrictive limitations and require users to prove their identity. ICBIT finds this totally unacceptable and does not put any limits at all.

==Futures==
Futures traded include:

Futures contracts on USD/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/BUQ3 BUQ3] (expires August 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUU3 BUU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUV3 BUV3] (expires October 14, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ3 BUZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on Bitcoin difficulty
* [https://icbit.se/DFU3 DFU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/DFZ3 DFZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on LTC/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/LBU3 LBU3] (expires September 17, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on S&P500 index
* [https://icbit.se/ESU3 ESU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Settled futures:
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ2 BUZ2] (Futures contract, expired December 15, 2012, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUH3 BUH3] (Futures contract, expired March 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/CLG3 CLG3] (Crude Oil Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/GDG3 GDG3] (Gold Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)

==Exchange==
Traded on the exchange are:

* BTC/USD
* BTC/RUB (Russian Ruble)

==Adding Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin deposits to the account's BTC EWallet. Funds are added to the account's wallet after six (6) confirmations. Transactions made by [[DeepBit]] mining pool are added instantly.

===USD===

There are no methods to add USD funds.

===RUB===

QIWI vouchers can be used to add funds to an account's Russian ruble EWallet.

==Widthraw Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin withdrawals from the account's BTC EWallet.

===USD===

There are no USD withdrawal methods.

===RUB===

Funds can be withdrawn from the account's Russian ruble EWallet as QIWI vouchers.

==Security==

Accounts can be protected where both login and any money withdrawal operation requires the one-time password (OTP) feature known as two-step authentication. A mobile smartphone with Google Authenticator is the most commonly used OTP device.

== History ==
First mentions of ICBIT appeared in June and July 2011 in the Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread at bitcointalk.org<ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=20377.msg319099#msg319099 Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread]</ref> and Bitcoin futures market discussion <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15818.msg250391#msg250391 Fireball's statement about ongoing futures exchange work]</ref>. By that time a very first version of the trading engine was developed.

A more detailed thread specific to ICBIT futures market was started <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg605807#msg605807 ICBIT derivatives market thread]</ref> in November, 2011. The first closed test of futures market was performed, and work on the new version of web trading client was started.

Finally in January, 2012 the currency exchange section went live <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60548.0 Bitcointalk announcement of a new exchange live testing]</ref>

==See Also==

* [[Buying bitcoins]]
* [[Selling bitcoins]]

== External Links ==
* [https://icbit.se ICBIT] website.
* [https://icbit.se/WebTrade/ Trading client] Direct link to the web trading client logon.
* At one point in the past, somebody who goes by the identifier "Fireball" [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414 voluntarily took the took one "bad customers" debt].

== References ==
<references />

[[Category:Exchanges]]
[[Category:Stock_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Bonds_Markets]]
[[Category:Futures_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Investing]]

ICBIT

2013-09-23T02:50:33Z

FleaSpirit:

−''''' There are have been complaints about several core practices at icbit.'''''−

-The primary complaint involves contract price manipulations that allow larger traders, including the site owner, to make easy profits from smaller traders regardless of bitcoin price movements.

Documentation of contract manipulations, including screenshots, is included in some of the complaints, including https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845

Complaints directed to the owner of icbit, who also is the principle contributor to this wiki page, include https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0

The owner of icbit has so far refused to publicly answer the most serious complaints and has refused to refund money, in some cases, to those who have lost money due to practices that a reasonable person would not consider acceptable on a financial site.

−'''Any potential investor should understand the issues raised in the complaints. If you are not sure please ask questions in a public forum like bitcointalk.org and do not invest until all questions are answered to your satisfaction.'''−<ref>[http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/icbitse-the-bucket-shop/ Article by Mircea Popescu, proprietor of MPEx]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125376.0 Bitcointalk "bucket shop" thread]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845 Bitcointalk "icbit warning" thread]</ref>

- - - - - - - -

ICBIT is a trading website which runs a few markets. Both the Exchange and Futures markets are live now.

This site is said[source?] to be founded by Fireball and [[DeepBit]] by combining best practices in high-performance trading and Bitcoin experience.

'''ICBIT is not an exchange''' since it does not act as a central counterparty. [http://web.archive.org/web/20130510221928/https://icbit.se/margincall According to their website] users '''are totally exposed to counterparty risk from other traders''' whose identities are concealed from them; the exchange does not pledge its own assets to back the full extent of the other side of a customer's position -- it pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)". Traders are not allowed to conduct background or reputation checks of any kind on these anonymous counterparties. ICBIT recently modified the linked page and it '''now contains self-contradictory information,''' such as "we do pledge our own assets, it's not always the case" and "your profitable position will be closed" at whatever price the exchange deems convenient rather than value-at-maturity. Since the exchange pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)" it is, by definition, not the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterparty counterparty] -- the "loosing [sic] traders" are the counterparty.

== Features ==
For its currency exchange section ICBIT makes an accent on the following:
* State-of-the-art technologies usage. Instead of using old, slow, polling-based algorithms ICBIT builds atop of the most up to date technologies. Its web trading client is in pure HTML and JavaScript (even compatible with most mobile devices), however it's fully realtime thanks to websockets and AJAX.
* Speed of trading. Bitcoin forum is full of anger against slowness of existing exchanges. ICBIT implements special high performance trading engine and uses high-performance "no SQL" database to eliminate the problem.
* No limits. Most of the existing exchanges put rather restrictive limitations and require users to prove their identity. ICBIT finds this totally unacceptable and does not put any limits at all.
* One problem with this is that some unusual similarities have been observed between several 'different' users, indicating they may be the same user. This becomes an issue when 'several' of these users post on forums in defense of icbit and engage in chat on the icbit website that may be intended simply to draw in customers.
* One example of this is the 'contango / backwardation' issue involving several users who each use these words improperly, in the same way, on various posts at bitcointalk and on the icbit site. Potential investors can research this simply by searching bitcointalk for these terms and noting when the terms are used in relation to icbit. Neither backwardation nor contango are involved in price variations on the site. '''There is no 'proper' use of these terms with regard to the specific contracts as traded at icbit.''' Any person with questions or doubts should research these terms and ask questions in a public forum.[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=164255.msg2701891#msg2701891]

==Futures==
Futures traded include:

Futures contracts on USD/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/BUQ3 BUQ3] (expires August 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUU3 BUU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUV3 BUV3] (expires October 14, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ3 BUZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on Bitcoin difficulty
* [https://icbit.se/DFU3 DFU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/DFZ3 DFZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on LTC/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/LBU3 LBU3] (expires September 17, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on S&P500 index
* [https://icbit.se/ESU3 ESU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Settled futures:
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ2 BUZ2] (Futures contract, expired December 15, 2012, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUH3 BUH3] (Futures contract, expired March 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/CLG3 CLG3] (Crude Oil Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/GDG3 GDG3] (Gold Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)

==Exchange==
Traded on the exchange are:

* BTC/USD
* BTC/RUB (Russian Ruble)

==Adding Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin deposits to the account's BTC EWallet. Funds are added to the account's wallet after six (6) confirmations. Transactions made by [[DeepBit]] mining pool are added instantly.

===USD===

There are no methods to add USD funds.

===RUB===

QIWI vouchers can be used to add funds to an account's Russian ruble EWallet.

==Widthraw Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin withdrawals from the account's BTC EWallet.

===USD===

There are no USD withdrawal methods.

===RUB===

Funds can be withdrawn from the account's Russian ruble EWallet as QIWI vouchers.

==Security==

Accounts can be protected where both login and any money withdrawal operation requires the one-time password (OTP) feature known as two-step authentication. A mobile smartphone with Google Authenticator is the most commonly used OTP device.

== History ==
First mentions of ICBIT appeared in June and July 2011 in the Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread at bitcointalk.org<ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=20377.msg319099#msg319099 Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread]</ref> and Bitcoin futures market discussion <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15818.msg250391#msg250391 Fireball's statement about ongoing futures exchange work]</ref>. By that time a very first version of the trading engine was developed.

A more detailed thread specific to ICBIT futures market was started <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg605807#msg605807 ICBIT derivatives market thread]</ref> in November, 2011. The first closed test of futures market was performed, and work on the new version of web trading client was started.

Finally in January, 2012 the currency exchange section went live <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60548.0 Bitcointalk announcement of a new exchange live testing]</ref>

In 2012 there were initial reports of possible unethical practices at icbit, culminating in a detailed exposé by a competitor of icbit. <ref>[http://trilema.com/2012/icbitse-the-bucket-shop/]</ref>

In 2013 complaints increased, including those linked on this wiki and several more.

As of late September 2013 the owner of icbit, Fireball, continues to avoid responsibility for what are widely regarded as questionable practices. He daily edits this wiki (see "View History" tab above) to remove any information that is not favorable. Still some traders hope he will reform, settle his bad accounts and work to create an honest site '''or have the decency to shut down.'''

==See Also==

* [[Buying bitcoins]]
* [[Selling bitcoins]]
* [[Bitcoin_Ladder#Top_Scams.2C_thefts.2C_hacks_and_heists|Top bitcoin scams thefts hacks and heists]]

== External Links ==
* [https://icbit.se ICBIT] website.
* [https://icbit.se/WebTrade/ Trading client] Direct link to the web trading client logon.
* At one point in the past, somebody who goes by the identifier "Fireball" [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414 voluntarily took the took one "bad customers" debt].

== References ==
<references />

[[Category:Exchanges]]
[[Category:Stock_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Bonds_Markets]]
[[Category:Futures_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Investing]]

ICBIT

2013-09-23T02:38:32Z

FleaSpirit: /* Features */

−''''' There are have been complaints about several core practices at icbit.'''''−

-The primary complaint involves contract price manipulations that allow larger traders, including the site owner, to make easy profits from smaller traders regardless of bitcoin price movements.

Documentation of contract manipulations, including screenshots, is included in some of the complaints, including https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845

Complaints directed to the owner of icbit, who also is the principle contributor to this wiki page, include https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0

The owner of icbit has so far refused to publicly answer complaints and has refused to refund money to those who have lost money due to practices that a reasonable person would not spot without observing the site for a period of time.

−'''Any potential investor should understand the issues raised in the complaints. If you are not sure please ask questions in a public forum like bitcointalk.org and do not invest until all questions are answered to your satisfaction.'''−<ref>[http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/icbitse-the-bucket-shop/ Article by Mircea Popescu, proprietor of MPEx]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125376.0 Bitcointalk "bucket shop" thread]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845 Bitcointalk "icbit warning" thread]</ref>

- - - - - - - -

ICBIT is a trading website which runs a few markets. Both the Exchange and Futures markets are live now.

This site is said[source?] to be founded by Fireball and [[DeepBit]] by combining best practices in high-performance trading and Bitcoin experience.

'''ICBIT is not an exchange''' since it does not act as a central counterparty. [http://web.archive.org/web/20130510221928/https://icbit.se/margincall According to their website] users '''are totally exposed to counterparty risk from other traders''' whose identities are concealed from them; the exchange does not pledge its own assets to back the full extent of the other side of a customer's position -- it pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)". Traders are not allowed to conduct background or reputation checks of any kind on these anonymous counterparties. ICBIT recently modified the linked page and it '''now contains self-contradictory information,''' such as "we do pledge our own assets, it's not always the case" and "your profitable position will be closed" at whatever price the exchange deems convenient rather than value-at-maturity. Since the exchange pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)" it is, by definition, not the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterparty counterparty] -- the "loosing [sic] traders" are the counterparty.

== Features ==
For its currency exchange section ICBIT makes an accent on the following:
* State-of-the-art technologies usage. Instead of using old, slow, polling-based algorithms ICBIT builds atop of the most up to date technologies. Its web trading client is in pure HTML and JavaScript (even compatible with most mobile devices), however it's fully realtime thanks to websockets and AJAX.
* Speed of trading. Bitcoin forum is full of anger against slowness of existing exchanges. ICBIT implements special high performance trading engine and uses high-performance "no SQL" database to eliminate the problem.
* No limits. Most of the existing exchanges put rather restrictive limitations and require users to prove their identity. ICBIT finds this totally unacceptable and does not put any limits at all.
* One problem with this is that some unusual similarities have been observed between several 'different' users, indicating they may be the same user. This becomes an issue when 'several' of these users post on forums in defense of icbit and engage in chat on the icbit website that may be intended simply to draw in customers.
* One example of this is the 'contango / backwardation' issue involving several users who each use these words improperly, in the same way, on various posts at bitcointalk and on the icbit site. Potential investors can research this simply by searching bitcointalk for these terms and noting when the terms are used in relation to icbit. Neither backwardation nor contango are involved in price variations on the site. '''There is no 'proper' use of these terms with regard to the specific contracts as traded at icbit.''' Any person with questions or doubts should research these terms and ask questions in a public forum.[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=164255.msg2701891#msg2701891]

==Futures==
Futures traded include:

Futures contracts on USD/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/BUQ3 BUQ3] (expires August 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUU3 BUU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUV3 BUV3] (expires October 14, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ3 BUZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on Bitcoin difficulty
* [https://icbit.se/DFU3 DFU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/DFZ3 DFZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on LTC/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/LBU3 LBU3] (expires September 17, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on S&P500 index
* [https://icbit.se/ESU3 ESU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Settled futures:
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ2 BUZ2] (Futures contract, expired December 15, 2012, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUH3 BUH3] (Futures contract, expired March 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/CLG3 CLG3] (Crude Oil Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/GDG3 GDG3] (Gold Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)

==Exchange==
Traded on the exchange are:

* BTC/USD
* BTC/RUB (Russian Ruble)

==Adding Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin deposits to the account's BTC EWallet. Funds are added to the account's wallet after six (6) confirmations. Transactions made by [[DeepBit]] mining pool are added instantly.

===USD===

There are no methods to add USD funds.

===RUB===

QIWI vouchers can be used to add funds to an account's Russian ruble EWallet.

==Widthraw Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin withdrawals from the account's BTC EWallet.

===USD===

There are no USD withdrawal methods.

===RUB===

Funds can be withdrawn from the account's Russian ruble EWallet as QIWI vouchers.

==Security==

Accounts can be protected where both login and any money withdrawal operation requires the one-time password (OTP) feature known as two-step authentication. A mobile smartphone with Google Authenticator is the most commonly used OTP device.

== History ==
First mentions of ICBIT appeared in June and July 2011 in the Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread at bitcointalk.org<ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=20377.msg319099#msg319099 Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread]</ref> and Bitcoin futures market discussion <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15818.msg250391#msg250391 Fireball's statement about ongoing futures exchange work]</ref>. By that time a very first version of the trading engine was developed.

A more detailed thread specific to ICBIT futures market was started <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg605807#msg605807 ICBIT derivatives market thread]</ref> in November, 2011. The first closed test of futures market was performed, and work on the new version of web trading client was started.

Finally in January, 2012 the currency exchange section went live <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60548.0 Bitcointalk announcement of a new exchange live testing]</ref>

In 2012 there were initial reports of possible unethical practices at icbit, culminating in a detailed exposé by a competitor of icbit. <ref>[http://trilema.com/2012/icbitse-the-bucket-shop/]</ref>

In 2013 complaints increased, including those linked on this wiki and several more.

As of late September 2013 the owner of icbit, Fireball, continues to avoid responsibility for what are widely regarded as questionable practices. He daily edits this wiki (see "View History" tab above) to remove any information that is not favorable. Still some traders hope he will reform, settle his bad accounts and work to create an honest site '''or have the decency to shut down.'''

==See Also==

* [[Buying bitcoins]]
* [[Selling bitcoins]]
* [[Bitcoin_Ladder#Top_Scams.2C_thefts.2C_hacks_and_heists|Top bitcoin scams thefts hacks and heists]]

== External Links ==
* [https://icbit.se ICBIT] website.
* [https://icbit.se/WebTrade/ Trading client] Direct link to the web trading client logon.
* At one point in the past, somebody who goes by the identifier "Fireball" [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414 voluntarily took the took one "bad customers" debt].

== References ==
<references />

[[Category:Exchanges]]
[[Category:Stock_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Bonds_Markets]]
[[Category:Futures_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Investing]]

ICBIT

2013-09-23T01:24:09Z

FleaSpirit: /* See Also */

−''''' There are have been complaints about several core practices at icbit.'''''−

-The primary complaint involves contract price manipulations that allow larger traders, including the site owner, to make easy profits from smaller traders regardless of bitcoin price movements.

Documentation of contract manipulations, including screenshots, is included in some of the complaints, including https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845

Complaints directed to the owner of icbit, who also is the principle contributor to this wiki page, include https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0

The owner of icbit has so far refused to publicly answer complaints and has refused to refund money to those who have lost money due to practices that a reasonable person would not spot without observing the site for a period of time.

−'''Any potential investor should understand the issues raised in the complaints. If you are not sure please ask questions in a public forum like bitcointalk.org and do not invest until all questions are answered to your satisfaction.'''−<ref>[http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/icbitse-the-bucket-shop/ Article by Mircea Popescu, proprietor of MPEx]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125376.0 Bitcointalk "bucket shop" thread]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845 Bitcointalk "icbit warning" thread]</ref>

- - - - - - - -

ICBIT is a trading website which runs a few markets. Both the Exchange and Futures markets are live now.

This site is said[source?] to be founded by Fireball and [[DeepBit]] by combining best practices in high-performance trading and Bitcoin experience.

'''ICBIT is not an exchange''' since it does not act as a central counterparty. [http://web.archive.org/web/20130510221928/https://icbit.se/margincall According to their website] users '''are totally exposed to counterparty risk from other traders''' whose identities are concealed from them; the exchange does not pledge its own assets to back the full extent of the other side of a customer's position -- it pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)". Traders are not allowed to conduct background or reputation checks of any kind on these anonymous counterparties. ICBIT recently modified the linked page and it '''now contains self-contradictory information,''' such as "we do pledge our own assets, it's not always the case" and "your profitable position will be closed" at whatever price the exchange deems convenient rather than value-at-maturity. Since the exchange pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)" it is, by definition, not the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterparty counterparty] -- the "loosing [sic] traders" are the counterparty.

== Features ==
For its currency exchange section ICBIT makes an accent on the following:
* State-of-the-art technologies usage. Instead of using old, slow, polling-based algorithms ICBIT builds atop of the most up to date technologies. Its web trading client is in pure HTML and JavaScript (even compatible with most mobile devices), however it's fully realtime thanks to websockets and AJAX.
* Speed of trading. Bitcoin forum is full of anger against slowness of existing exchanges. ICBIT implements special high performance trading engine and uses high-performance "no SQL" database to eliminate the problem.
* No limits. Most of the existing exchanges put rather restrictive limitations and require users to prove their identity. ICBIT finds this totally unacceptable and does not put any limits at all.

==Futures==
Futures traded include:

Futures contracts on USD/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/BUQ3 BUQ3] (expires August 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUU3 BUU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUV3 BUV3] (expires October 14, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ3 BUZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on Bitcoin difficulty
* [https://icbit.se/DFU3 DFU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/DFZ3 DFZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on LTC/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/LBU3 LBU3] (expires September 17, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on S&P500 index
* [https://icbit.se/ESU3 ESU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Settled futures:
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ2 BUZ2] (Futures contract, expired December 15, 2012, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUH3 BUH3] (Futures contract, expired March 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/CLG3 CLG3] (Crude Oil Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/GDG3 GDG3] (Gold Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)

==Exchange==
Traded on the exchange are:

* BTC/USD
* BTC/RUB (Russian Ruble)

==Adding Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin deposits to the account's BTC EWallet. Funds are added to the account's wallet after six (6) confirmations. Transactions made by [[DeepBit]] mining pool are added instantly.

===USD===

There are no methods to add USD funds.

===RUB===

QIWI vouchers can be used to add funds to an account's Russian ruble EWallet.

==Widthraw Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin withdrawals from the account's BTC EWallet.

===USD===

There are no USD withdrawal methods.

===RUB===

Funds can be withdrawn from the account's Russian ruble EWallet as QIWI vouchers.

==Security==

Accounts can be protected where both login and any money withdrawal operation requires the one-time password (OTP) feature known as two-step authentication. A mobile smartphone with Google Authenticator is the most commonly used OTP device.

== History ==
First mentions of ICBIT appeared in June and July 2011 in the Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread at bitcointalk.org<ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=20377.msg319099#msg319099 Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread]</ref> and Bitcoin futures market discussion <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15818.msg250391#msg250391 Fireball's statement about ongoing futures exchange work]</ref>. By that time a very first version of the trading engine was developed.

A more detailed thread specific to ICBIT futures market was started <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg605807#msg605807 ICBIT derivatives market thread]</ref> in November, 2011. The first closed test of futures market was performed, and work on the new version of web trading client was started.

Finally in January, 2012 the currency exchange section went live <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60548.0 Bitcointalk announcement of a new exchange live testing]</ref>

In 2012 there were initial reports of possible unethical practices at icbit, culminating in a detailed exposé by a competitor of icbit. <ref>[http://trilema.com/2012/icbitse-the-bucket-shop/]</ref>

In 2013 complaints increased, including those linked on this wiki and several more.

As of late September 2013 the owner of icbit, Fireball, continues to avoid responsibility for what are widely regarded as questionable practices. He daily edits this wiki (see "View History" tab above) to remove any information that is not favorable. Still some traders hope he will reform, settle his bad accounts and work to create an honest site '''or have the decency to shut down.'''

==See Also==

* [[Buying bitcoins]]
* [[Selling bitcoins]]
* [[Bitcoin_Ladder#Top_Scams.2C_thefts.2C_hacks_and_heists|Top bitcoin scams thefts hacks and heists]]

== External Links ==
* [https://icbit.se ICBIT] website.
* [https://icbit.se/WebTrade/ Trading client] Direct link to the web trading client logon.
* At one point in the past, somebody who goes by the identifier "Fireball" [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414 voluntarily took the took one "bad customers" debt].

== References ==
<references />

[[Category:Exchanges]]
[[Category:Stock_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Bonds_Markets]]
[[Category:Futures_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Investing]]

ICBIT

2013-09-23T01:16:01Z

FleaSpirit: /* History */

−''''' There are have been complaints about several core practices at icbit.'''''−

-The primary complaint involves contract price manipulations that allow larger traders, including the site owner, to make easy profits from smaller traders regardless of bitcoin price movements.

Documentation of contract manipulations, including screenshots, is included in some of the complaints, including https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845

Complaints directed to the owner of icbit, who also is the principle contributor to this wiki page, include https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0

The owner of icbit has so far refused to publicly answer complaints and has refused to refund money to those who have lost money due to practices that a reasonable person would not spot without observing the site for a period of time.

−'''Any potential investor should understand the issues raised in the complaints. If you are not sure please ask questions in a public forum like bitcointalk.org and do not invest until all questions are answered to your satisfaction.'''−<ref>[http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/icbitse-the-bucket-shop/ Article by Mircea Popescu, proprietor of MPEx]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125376.0 Bitcointalk "bucket shop" thread]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845 Bitcointalk "icbit warning" thread]</ref>

- - - - - - - -

ICBIT is a trading website which runs a few markets. Both the Exchange and Futures markets are live now.

This site is said[source?] to be founded by Fireball and [[DeepBit]] by combining best practices in high-performance trading and Bitcoin experience.

'''ICBIT is not an exchange''' since it does not act as a central counterparty. [http://web.archive.org/web/20130510221928/https://icbit.se/margincall According to their website] users '''are totally exposed to counterparty risk from other traders''' whose identities are concealed from them; the exchange does not pledge its own assets to back the full extent of the other side of a customer's position -- it pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)". Traders are not allowed to conduct background or reputation checks of any kind on these anonymous counterparties. ICBIT recently modified the linked page and it '''now contains self-contradictory information,''' such as "we do pledge our own assets, it's not always the case" and "your profitable position will be closed" at whatever price the exchange deems convenient rather than value-at-maturity. Since the exchange pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)" it is, by definition, not the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterparty counterparty] -- the "loosing [sic] traders" are the counterparty.

== Features ==
For its currency exchange section ICBIT makes an accent on the following:
* State-of-the-art technologies usage. Instead of using old, slow, polling-based algorithms ICBIT builds atop of the most up to date technologies. Its web trading client is in pure HTML and JavaScript (even compatible with most mobile devices), however it's fully realtime thanks to websockets and AJAX.
* Speed of trading. Bitcoin forum is full of anger against slowness of existing exchanges. ICBIT implements special high performance trading engine and uses high-performance "no SQL" database to eliminate the problem.
* No limits. Most of the existing exchanges put rather restrictive limitations and require users to prove their identity. ICBIT finds this totally unacceptable and does not put any limits at all.

==Futures==
Futures traded include:

Futures contracts on USD/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/BUQ3 BUQ3] (expires August 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUU3 BUU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUV3 BUV3] (expires October 14, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ3 BUZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on Bitcoin difficulty
* [https://icbit.se/DFU3 DFU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/DFZ3 DFZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on LTC/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/LBU3 LBU3] (expires September 17, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on S&P500 index
* [https://icbit.se/ESU3 ESU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Settled futures:
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ2 BUZ2] (Futures contract, expired December 15, 2012, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUH3 BUH3] (Futures contract, expired March 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/CLG3 CLG3] (Crude Oil Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/GDG3 GDG3] (Gold Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)

==Exchange==
Traded on the exchange are:

* BTC/USD
* BTC/RUB (Russian Ruble)

==Adding Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin deposits to the account's BTC EWallet. Funds are added to the account's wallet after six (6) confirmations. Transactions made by [[DeepBit]] mining pool are added instantly.

===USD===

There are no methods to add USD funds.

===RUB===

QIWI vouchers can be used to add funds to an account's Russian ruble EWallet.

==Widthraw Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin withdrawals from the account's BTC EWallet.

===USD===

There are no USD withdrawal methods.

===RUB===

Funds can be withdrawn from the account's Russian ruble EWallet as QIWI vouchers.

==Security==

Accounts can be protected where both login and any money withdrawal operation requires the one-time password (OTP) feature known as two-step authentication. A mobile smartphone with Google Authenticator is the most commonly used OTP device.

== History ==
First mentions of ICBIT appeared in June and July 2011 in the Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread at bitcointalk.org<ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=20377.msg319099#msg319099 Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread]</ref> and Bitcoin futures market discussion <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15818.msg250391#msg250391 Fireball's statement about ongoing futures exchange work]</ref>. By that time a very first version of the trading engine was developed.

A more detailed thread specific to ICBIT futures market was started <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg605807#msg605807 ICBIT derivatives market thread]</ref> in November, 2011. The first closed test of futures market was performed, and work on the new version of web trading client was started.

Finally in January, 2012 the currency exchange section went live <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60548.0 Bitcointalk announcement of a new exchange live testing]</ref>

In 2012 there were initial reports of possible unethical practices at icbit, culminating in a detailed exposé by a competitor of icbit. <ref>[http://trilema.com/2012/icbitse-the-bucket-shop/]</ref>

In 2013 complaints increased, including those linked on this wiki and several more.

As of late September 2013 the owner of icbit, Fireball, continues to avoid responsibility for what are widely regarded as questionable practices. He daily edits this wiki (see "View History" tab above) to remove any information that is not favorable. Still some traders hope he will reform, settle his bad accounts and work to create an honest site '''or have the decency to shut down.'''

==See Also==

* [[Buying bitcoins]]
* [[Selling bitcoins]]

== External Links ==
* [https://icbit.se ICBIT] website.
* [https://icbit.se/WebTrade/ Trading client] Direct link to the web trading client logon.
* At one point in the past, somebody who goes by the identifier "Fireball" [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414 voluntarily took the took one "bad customers" debt].

== References ==
<references />

[[Category:Exchanges]]
[[Category:Stock_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Bonds_Markets]]
[[Category:Futures_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Investing]]

ICBIT

2013-09-22T22:11:11Z

FleaSpirit: Undo revision 41216 by Fireball (talk)

−''''' There are have been complaints about several core practices at icbit.'''''−

-The primary complaint involves contract price manipulations that allow larger traders, including the site owner, to make easy profits from smaller traders regardless of bitcoin price movements.

Documentation of contract manipulations, including screenshots, is included in some of the complaints, including https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845

Complaints directed to the owner of icbit, who also is the principle contributor to this wiki page, include https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0

The owner of icbit has so far refused to publicly answer complaints and has refused to refund money to those who have lost money due to practices that a reasonable person would not spot without observing the site for a period of time.

−'''Any potential investor should understand the issues raised in the complaints. If you are not sure please ask questions in a public forum like bitcointalk.org and do not invest until all questions are answered to your satisfaction.'''−<ref>[http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/icbitse-the-bucket-shop/ Article by Mircea Popescu, proprietor of MPEx]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125376.0 Bitcointalk "bucket shop" thread]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845 Bitcointalk "icbit warning" thread]</ref>

- - - - - - - -

ICBIT is a trading website which runs a few markets. Both the Exchange and Futures markets are live now.

This site is said[source?] to be founded by Fireball and [[DeepBit]] by combining best practices in high-performance trading and Bitcoin experience.

'''ICBIT is not an exchange''' since it does not act as a central counterparty. [http://web.archive.org/web/20130510221928/https://icbit.se/margincall According to their website] users '''are totally exposed to counterparty risk from other traders''' whose identities are concealed from them; the exchange does not pledge its own assets to back the full extent of the other side of a customer's position -- it pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)". Traders are not allowed to conduct background or reputation checks of any kind on these anonymous counterparties. ICBIT recently modified the linked page and it '''now contains self-contradictory information,''' such as "we do pledge our own assets, it's not always the case" and "your profitable position will be closed" at whatever price the exchange deems convenient rather than value-at-maturity. Since the exchange pledges only "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)" it is, by definition, not the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterparty counterparty] -- the "loosing [sic] traders" are the counterparty.

== Features ==
For its currency exchange section ICBIT makes an accent on the following:
* State-of-the-art technologies usage. Instead of using old, slow, polling-based algorithms ICBIT builds atop of the most up to date technologies. Its web trading client is in pure HTML and JavaScript (even compatible with most mobile devices), however it's fully realtime thanks to websockets and AJAX.
* Speed of trading. Bitcoin forum is full of anger against slowness of existing exchanges. ICBIT implements special high performance trading engine and uses high-performance "no SQL" database to eliminate the problem.
* No limits. Most of the existing exchanges put rather restrictive limitations and require users to prove their identity. ICBIT finds this totally unacceptable and does not put any limits at all.

==Futures==
Futures traded include:

Futures contracts on USD/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/BUQ3 BUQ3] (expires August 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUU3 BUU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUV3 BUV3] (expires October 14, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ3 BUZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on Bitcoin difficulty
* [https://icbit.se/DFU3 DFU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/DFZ3 DFZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on LTC/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/LBU3 LBU3] (expires September 17, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on S&P500 index
* [https://icbit.se/ESU3 ESU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Settled futures:
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ2 BUZ2] (Futures contract, expired December 15, 2012, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUH3 BUH3] (Futures contract, expired March 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/CLG3 CLG3] (Crude Oil Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/GDG3 GDG3] (Gold Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)

==Exchange==
Traded on the exchange are:

* BTC/USD
* BTC/RUB (Russian Ruble)

==Adding Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin deposits to the account's BTC EWallet. Funds are added to the account's wallet after six (6) confirmations. Transactions made by [[DeepBit]] mining pool are added instantly.

===USD===

There are no methods to add USD funds.

===RUB===

QIWI vouchers can be used to add funds to an account's Russian ruble EWallet.

==Widthraw Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin withdrawals from the account's BTC EWallet.

===USD===

There are no USD withdrawal methods.

===RUB===

Funds can be withdrawn from the account's Russian ruble EWallet as QIWI vouchers.

==Security==

Accounts can be protected where both login and any money withdrawal operation requires the one-time password (OTP) feature known as two-step authentication. A mobile smartphone with Google Authenticator is the most commonly used OTP device.

== History ==
First mentions of ICBIT appeared in June and July 2011 in the Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread at bitcointalk.org<ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=20377.msg319099#msg319099 Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread]</ref> and Bitcoin futures market discussion <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15818.msg250391#msg250391 Fireball's statement about ongoing futures exchange work]</ref>. By that time a very first version of the trading engine was developed.

A more detailed thread specific to ICBIT futures market was started <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg605807#msg605807 ICBIT derivatives market thread]</ref> in November, 2011. The first closed test of futures market was performed, and work on the new version of web trading client was started.

Finally in January, 2012 the currency exchange section went live <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60548.0 Bitcointalk announcement of a new exchange live testing]</ref>

==See Also==

* [[Buying bitcoins]]
* [[Selling bitcoins]]

== External Links ==
* [https://icbit.se ICBIT] website.
* [https://icbit.se/WebTrade/ Trading client] Direct link to the web trading client logon.
* At one point in the past, somebody who goes by the identifier "Fireball" [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414 voluntarily took the took one "bad customers" debt].

== References ==
<references />

[[Category:Exchanges]]
[[Category:Stock_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Bonds_Markets]]
[[Category:Futures_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Investing]]

Talk:ICBIT

2013-09-22T04:26:12Z

FleaSpirit: /* Whether ICBIT is a scam */

There are at least two different edit disputes on this page. Please try to put your comments in the appropriate section and please try to deal with only one of these disputes in each of your edits. Thanks. [[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 23:20, 26 August 2013 (GMT)

__FORCETOC__

== Whether ICBIT is an Exchange providing full Central Counterparty backing ==

Please stop deleting material from this page. For a very long time ICBIT's webpage clearly explained that it was not a central counterparty. Now it's been changed to something absurdly self-contradictory that essentially says "we call ourselves a central counterparty but we aren't one and we explicitly deny the responsibilities that define the role of a central counterparty". The whole point of having a futures exchange is that you're exposed to credit risk from only one party and you know who that party is (the exchange). ICBIT is not doing that. If they decide to do that and say so publicly, then feel free to change this page, but unless/until then please stop deleting important facts. [[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 16:04, 13 August 2013 (GMT)

First of all, finally thank you for taking this into Discussion page. The thing is that you seem to misunderstand how exchanges work. Indeed, ICBIT acts as a counterparty to all futures contracts trades happening, and all major fiat money futures exchanges out there do the same.

That means that if one trader buys 2 BTC/USD contracts, counterparty is ICBIT, and it is also counterparty to those traders who sold these 2 contracts!

Graphically:

Trader 1 Trader 4
Trader 2 <==> ICBIT <==> Trader 5
Trader 3 Trader 6

Now, the most important fact: Sum of all money paid by loosing users equals to sum of all money paid to profiting users!

And when any user from loosing side goes bankrupt, central counterparty (aka exchange) has to pay its own money. We do that, but we can't do that all the time, and we can't guarantee it happens all the time, so that's why we say that we guarantee to pay as much, as loosing traders are able to pay.

Again, that's absolutely same to how fiat-money "real-world" exchanges work. They have reserve funds, and they often go bankrupt (lookup recent Hong Kong's derivatives market bankrupcy, for example).

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]]

No, Fireball, ''you'' misunderstand how exchanges work, and you do not appear to understand what [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_risk#Counterparty_risk Counterparty Risk] is. Being a central counterparty is much more then simply being a central intermediary. Your diagram shows a central ''intermediary,'' not a central counterparty.

Here, since you like pictures:

Trader 1 Trader 4
Trader 2 <==> Intermediary <==> Trader 5
Trader 3 Trader 6

You write "and when any user from loosing side goes bankrupt, central counterparty (aka exchange) has to pay its own money. We do that, but we can't do that all the time, and we can't guarantee it happens '''all the time'''" -- then you are not a central counterparty '''all the time'''. It's just that simple. When you're ready to do that all the time like COMEX and Nasdaq do, '''all the time''' with a pledge of the assets and equity of the exchange itself to fulfill any default like COMEX and Nasdaq do, then announce it publicly and you'll be an exchange (at least in that essential respect). Until then stop posting factually incorrect information on the wiki.

Here's the problem:

Trader 1 defaults ======> ICBIT unable to collect ======> Trader 4 is told "you lose"

This means that ''Trader 1'' was the counterparty, not ICBIT.

If I buy a call option from on Nasdaq and it is cleared against an uncovered sell order by Bob Jones of Louisiana, I am not exposed to Bob Jones' bankruptcy even though selling uncovered calls has unlimited risk. Nasdaq will make good on the option '''all the time''', and if it doesn't Nasdaq itself is in default. This is the one and only reason why I don't care (and in fact don't know) who the hell Bob Jones is.

If I buy a COMEX contract for December delivery of gold and it is cleared against a sell order by Karl Marx of Zimbabwe, I am not exposed to Karl Marx's bankruptcy. COMEX will make delivery of the gold '''all the time''', and if it doesn't COMEX itself is in default. This is the one and only reason why I don't care (and in fact don't know) who the hell Karl Marx is.

Note that this is in stark contrast, to, say, credit default swaps which are not centrally cleared. And, in fact, note that there is no credit default swap exchange since CDS don't have a central counterparty. A CDS is always a direct transaction between two parties; the identity of the other party is always known and in fact ''who'' the counterparty is has a massive effect on the value of the CDS.

Stop vandalizing the page with your marketing propaganda.

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 23:10, 13 August 2013 (GMT)

Your last three paragraphs are absolutely correct, and it happens same way on ICBIT! That is what I am trying to explain you for weeks.
We do NOT bind futures contracts directly - e.g. you bought 1 contract from Friedrich Engels of South Africa, he went bankrupt and you did not get the money, and everyone else got their profit because they were lucky to make a deal with Karl Marx instead, who is more credible.

So when you trade at ICBIT, you also do not care who the Karl Marx is. In ICBIT, your futures transaction 2nd party is always exchange (when you buy someone's order, there will be at least 2 transactions 1 buy and 1 sell, both of them will have same 2nd party - the exchange).

Now take the example with COMEX and gold. It will make delivery of gold (same way as ICBIT delivers profit for contracts, pledging its own assets) and non-paying Karl Marx will be sued by banks/brokers, government enforcement agency will sell his car and house to cover losses.
ICBIT allows anonymous trades, so to prevent default we have to employ various risk reducing strategies, however theoretically (what I am trying to get you to understand again!) COMEX can easily go default, ICBIT can easily go default and Hong Kong's exchange already went default (even though it was/is an exchange, not some gambling house).
In that case, as it's explained on our webpage, we just pay as much as possible, close as much traders position as it's necessary and then traders are free to reopen them. This is because traders are anonymous, though we do reserve the right to pursue debtors.

Is this finally clear, and could *you* please stop vandalizing the page? I see that you are not new to finances, however if you want to redefine what exchange is, what counterparty is - please go to Wikipedia instead. I'm not for marketing propoganda, I'm for facts.

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]] ([[User talk:Fireball|talk]]) 11:57, 14 August 2013 (GMT)

> Your last three paragraphs are absolutely correct,

If that is true, point me to ICBIT's publicly-stated commitment that it pledges its own assets and equity to "make delivery of (the relevant asset) all the time, and if it doesn't ICBIT itself is in default" as I wrote in the second-to-last and third-to-last paragraphs. Until then the page stays the way it was. Don't revert it again. "We just pay as much as possible" is vague and useless; what matters is whether the exchange pledges its own assets and equity.

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 07:04, 15 August 2013 (GMT)

> The reference was and is there (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414), on the wiki page itself, which lets user read the original thread and make his opinion. So exchange does pledge the assets, and hence I restored the webpage.

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]] ([[User talk:Fireball|talk]]) 23:31, 15 August 2013 (GMT)

> The reference was and is there (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414), on the wiki page itself, which lets user read the original thread and make his opinion. So exchange does pledge the assets,

What? You're not making any sense. That forum posting does not address the issue here.

> and hence I restored the webpage.

I have reported your repeated unconstructive edits to the wiki administrators.

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 02:26, 16 August 2013 (GMT)

If you are not able to understand what's written there, it's your problem, not a problem of users visiting this page. Your actions are harming the community. Look around, the only scam reports are from you and another guy who lost money trading and now blackmails me asking for 1/4 of "his" money to be back in exchange for not spamming this page and forums. Get out of your small world and look around, again. Do you want Bitcoin to succeed? Or you want to kill it, one by one? We really run an honest service for more than 2 years. We contribute to the Bitcoin economy. We work on it every day and every hour. Don't spoil the fun. Hopefully, it's my last message to you.

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]] ([[User talk:Fireball|talk]]) 13:52, 24 August 2013 (GMT)

I haven't posted anything about scam reports; I just revert your unjustified deletions. You are seriously confused. Take your nonsense elsewhere. Here's an idea: if you don't like the part about scam reports, how about '''removing only that part''' instead of huge chunks of unrelated text? Yeah, I know, that would be way too easy...

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 02:40, 25 August 2013 (GMT)

If you can find time for reverts, you could find time for editing, not just reverting. Anyway, I reverted it to the good version, BUT added a text that YOU dispute that ICBIT is not the central counterparty for all trades. And referenced this page so that anyone interested could read through this page and get their own impression.
Because it's YOUR impression, and it must not be forced to EVERYONE reading the page. Readers should get their own impression. And wikipage must state facts, not a biased opinion of some stranger.
The version of text now is as precise as it is. Your description is not correct because you mislead customers into thinking that they trade futures with each other, when in fact they are trading with the exchange (it's a simple fact that I am one of those people who built this exchange from the ground up, and thus I know its internals much better than you do)

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]] ([[User talk:Fireball|talk]]) 12:38, 25 August 2013 (GMT)

You work for ICBIT. I have no stake in its success or failure, nor am I in any way involved with any of its competitors or alternatives.

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 12:45, 25 August 2013 (GMT)

So why the hell did you revert proper version of the text, mentioning your dispute? I think you don't notice this line.

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]] ([[User talk:Fireball|talk]]) 13:14, 25 August 2013 (GMT)

I see that you have made your policy ''even more self-contradictory'' than it was before.

Look, I've grown very tired of re-explaining what a counterparty is to you, but I'll mention one last thing. It seems like you're attempting in vain to come up with some policy that lets you force-close adequately-margined positions and still claim that you are the counterparty. This is totally impossible. If you're force-closing adequately-margined positions, the price used to force closure is not a market-determined price! You're shutting down the market (and perhaps letting it restart, but that's irrelevant) so whatever price you use to force-close is of your own choosing. You've robbed the asset holder of the ability to hold-to-maturity and take delivery. You might think the price you're offering them is fair compensation, but that's beside the point. Without the option to hold-to-maturity there is no way to determine the fair price.

I know you really really really want there to be some magical way you can be an exchange and still retain the ability to force-close the positions of people who have adequate margin because other people (their COUNTERPARTIES) no longer have adequate margin. There is no such magic. So make your choice -- either pledge the exchange's assets+equity to back positions taken (not just whatever part of the position you claim to be "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)") or stop calling yourself an exchange. Putting your business itself on the hook, financially, for the full extent of all positions taken is the only way you can be trusted to run a sufficiently careful margin system, since you are the one exposed for failure to police margins. Reserving the right to dump that risk on your customers whenever you screwed up… well, you can do whatever you want, but there's a damn good reason why no real exchange does this.

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 09:28, 26 August 2013 (GMT)

== Whether ICBIT is a scam ==

Fireball you say in the edits "Undo edits of users who lost money on ICBIT and now blackmailing me by spamming this wikipage asking to give them money back."

I'll say this again. I've made pretty clear my complaints with icbit. It is run dishonestly. I guarantee that no genuine trader, familiar with common practices on financial exchanges, will continue on your site when they notice the things you do. By engaging in corrupt practices you are eliminating your own chances to have a successful business.

My complaints are spelled out clearly.

Trying to get money returned to me that you took through crooked practices is not blackmail.

Warning people about you is not spamming.

Offering to suggest ways to make your site clean in exchange for the return of some of what I lost is generous.

Again, I am giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you are a very young person with no experience who simply is not familiar with basic business ethics.

[[User:FleaSpirit|FleaSpirit]] ([[User talk:FleaSpirit|talk]]) 04:25, 22 September 2013 (GMT)FleaSpirit
---------

=== Fireball, wanting money back that was taken through dishonest practices is not blackmail. ===

If you are comfortable with the practices you engage in on your website, why don't you address some of the accusations that have been made against you and your site?

1) Prices are blatantly manipulated through last clearing. The site encourages this, apparently because one or more site owners profit from it. A person expects prices to derive from movements in bitcoin, not overt manipulations. I have provided screenshots on the linked post below.

2) People running the site use their access to client financial information to conduct trades running positions against those clients.

For other observations refer to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845 which you have so far refused to even respond to.

If you want to defend your practices either here or on the forum Fireball, please do so.

No serious trader will stay on your site when they see the kinds of things you do. You are not running an honest financial exchange, you are running a scam built on keeping your clients in the dark about how you operate.

I have made and lost a lot of money on financial exchanges in the last 30+ years and I have never in my life made any sort of complaint against any exchange until yours.

[[User:FleaSpirit|FleaSpirit]] ([[User talk:FleaSpirit|talk]]) 16:41, 26 August 2013 (GMT)FleaSpirit

Talk:ICBIT

2013-09-22T04:25:41Z

FleaSpirit: /* Whether ICBIT is a scam */

There are at least two different edit disputes on this page. Please try to put your comments in the appropriate section and please try to deal with only one of these disputes in each of your edits. Thanks. [[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 23:20, 26 August 2013 (GMT)

__FORCETOC__

== Whether ICBIT is an Exchange providing full Central Counterparty backing ==

Please stop deleting material from this page. For a very long time ICBIT's webpage clearly explained that it was not a central counterparty. Now it's been changed to something absurdly self-contradictory that essentially says "we call ourselves a central counterparty but we aren't one and we explicitly deny the responsibilities that define the role of a central counterparty". The whole point of having a futures exchange is that you're exposed to credit risk from only one party and you know who that party is (the exchange). ICBIT is not doing that. If they decide to do that and say so publicly, then feel free to change this page, but unless/until then please stop deleting important facts. [[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 16:04, 13 August 2013 (GMT)

First of all, finally thank you for taking this into Discussion page. The thing is that you seem to misunderstand how exchanges work. Indeed, ICBIT acts as a counterparty to all futures contracts trades happening, and all major fiat money futures exchanges out there do the same.

That means that if one trader buys 2 BTC/USD contracts, counterparty is ICBIT, and it is also counterparty to those traders who sold these 2 contracts!

Graphically:

Trader 1 Trader 4
Trader 2 <==> ICBIT <==> Trader 5
Trader 3 Trader 6

Now, the most important fact: Sum of all money paid by loosing users equals to sum of all money paid to profiting users!

And when any user from loosing side goes bankrupt, central counterparty (aka exchange) has to pay its own money. We do that, but we can't do that all the time, and we can't guarantee it happens all the time, so that's why we say that we guarantee to pay as much, as loosing traders are able to pay.

Again, that's absolutely same to how fiat-money "real-world" exchanges work. They have reserve funds, and they often go bankrupt (lookup recent Hong Kong's derivatives market bankrupcy, for example).

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]]

No, Fireball, ''you'' misunderstand how exchanges work, and you do not appear to understand what [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_risk#Counterparty_risk Counterparty Risk] is. Being a central counterparty is much more then simply being a central intermediary. Your diagram shows a central ''intermediary,'' not a central counterparty.

Here, since you like pictures:

Trader 1 Trader 4
Trader 2 <==> Intermediary <==> Trader 5
Trader 3 Trader 6

You write "and when any user from loosing side goes bankrupt, central counterparty (aka exchange) has to pay its own money. We do that, but we can't do that all the time, and we can't guarantee it happens '''all the time'''" -- then you are not a central counterparty '''all the time'''. It's just that simple. When you're ready to do that all the time like COMEX and Nasdaq do, '''all the time''' with a pledge of the assets and equity of the exchange itself to fulfill any default like COMEX and Nasdaq do, then announce it publicly and you'll be an exchange (at least in that essential respect). Until then stop posting factually incorrect information on the wiki.

Here's the problem:

Trader 1 defaults ======> ICBIT unable to collect ======> Trader 4 is told "you lose"

This means that ''Trader 1'' was the counterparty, not ICBIT.

If I buy a call option from on Nasdaq and it is cleared against an uncovered sell order by Bob Jones of Louisiana, I am not exposed to Bob Jones' bankruptcy even though selling uncovered calls has unlimited risk. Nasdaq will make good on the option '''all the time''', and if it doesn't Nasdaq itself is in default. This is the one and only reason why I don't care (and in fact don't know) who the hell Bob Jones is.

If I buy a COMEX contract for December delivery of gold and it is cleared against a sell order by Karl Marx of Zimbabwe, I am not exposed to Karl Marx's bankruptcy. COMEX will make delivery of the gold '''all the time''', and if it doesn't COMEX itself is in default. This is the one and only reason why I don't care (and in fact don't know) who the hell Karl Marx is.

Note that this is in stark contrast, to, say, credit default swaps which are not centrally cleared. And, in fact, note that there is no credit default swap exchange since CDS don't have a central counterparty. A CDS is always a direct transaction between two parties; the identity of the other party is always known and in fact ''who'' the counterparty is has a massive effect on the value of the CDS.

Stop vandalizing the page with your marketing propaganda.

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 23:10, 13 August 2013 (GMT)

Your last three paragraphs are absolutely correct, and it happens same way on ICBIT! That is what I am trying to explain you for weeks.
We do NOT bind futures contracts directly - e.g. you bought 1 contract from Friedrich Engels of South Africa, he went bankrupt and you did not get the money, and everyone else got their profit because they were lucky to make a deal with Karl Marx instead, who is more credible.

So when you trade at ICBIT, you also do not care who the Karl Marx is. In ICBIT, your futures transaction 2nd party is always exchange (when you buy someone's order, there will be at least 2 transactions 1 buy and 1 sell, both of them will have same 2nd party - the exchange).

Now take the example with COMEX and gold. It will make delivery of gold (same way as ICBIT delivers profit for contracts, pledging its own assets) and non-paying Karl Marx will be sued by banks/brokers, government enforcement agency will sell his car and house to cover losses.
ICBIT allows anonymous trades, so to prevent default we have to employ various risk reducing strategies, however theoretically (what I am trying to get you to understand again!) COMEX can easily go default, ICBIT can easily go default and Hong Kong's exchange already went default (even though it was/is an exchange, not some gambling house).
In that case, as it's explained on our webpage, we just pay as much as possible, close as much traders position as it's necessary and then traders are free to reopen them. This is because traders are anonymous, though we do reserve the right to pursue debtors.

Is this finally clear, and could *you* please stop vandalizing the page? I see that you are not new to finances, however if you want to redefine what exchange is, what counterparty is - please go to Wikipedia instead. I'm not for marketing propoganda, I'm for facts.

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]] ([[User talk:Fireball|talk]]) 11:57, 14 August 2013 (GMT)

> Your last three paragraphs are absolutely correct,

If that is true, point me to ICBIT's publicly-stated commitment that it pledges its own assets and equity to "make delivery of (the relevant asset) all the time, and if it doesn't ICBIT itself is in default" as I wrote in the second-to-last and third-to-last paragraphs. Until then the page stays the way it was. Don't revert it again. "We just pay as much as possible" is vague and useless; what matters is whether the exchange pledges its own assets and equity.

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 07:04, 15 August 2013 (GMT)

> The reference was and is there (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414), on the wiki page itself, which lets user read the original thread and make his opinion. So exchange does pledge the assets, and hence I restored the webpage.

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]] ([[User talk:Fireball|talk]]) 23:31, 15 August 2013 (GMT)

> The reference was and is there (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414), on the wiki page itself, which lets user read the original thread and make his opinion. So exchange does pledge the assets,

What? You're not making any sense. That forum posting does not address the issue here.

> and hence I restored the webpage.

I have reported your repeated unconstructive edits to the wiki administrators.

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 02:26, 16 August 2013 (GMT)

If you are not able to understand what's written there, it's your problem, not a problem of users visiting this page. Your actions are harming the community. Look around, the only scam reports are from you and another guy who lost money trading and now blackmails me asking for 1/4 of "his" money to be back in exchange for not spamming this page and forums. Get out of your small world and look around, again. Do you want Bitcoin to succeed? Or you want to kill it, one by one? We really run an honest service for more than 2 years. We contribute to the Bitcoin economy. We work on it every day and every hour. Don't spoil the fun. Hopefully, it's my last message to you.

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]] ([[User talk:Fireball|talk]]) 13:52, 24 August 2013 (GMT)

I haven't posted anything about scam reports; I just revert your unjustified deletions. You are seriously confused. Take your nonsense elsewhere. Here's an idea: if you don't like the part about scam reports, how about '''removing only that part''' instead of huge chunks of unrelated text? Yeah, I know, that would be way too easy...

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 02:40, 25 August 2013 (GMT)

If you can find time for reverts, you could find time for editing, not just reverting. Anyway, I reverted it to the good version, BUT added a text that YOU dispute that ICBIT is not the central counterparty for all trades. And referenced this page so that anyone interested could read through this page and get their own impression.
Because it's YOUR impression, and it must not be forced to EVERYONE reading the page. Readers should get their own impression. And wikipage must state facts, not a biased opinion of some stranger.
The version of text now is as precise as it is. Your description is not correct because you mislead customers into thinking that they trade futures with each other, when in fact they are trading with the exchange (it's a simple fact that I am one of those people who built this exchange from the ground up, and thus I know its internals much better than you do)

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]] ([[User talk:Fireball|talk]]) 12:38, 25 August 2013 (GMT)

You work for ICBIT. I have no stake in its success or failure, nor am I in any way involved with any of its competitors or alternatives.

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 12:45, 25 August 2013 (GMT)

So why the hell did you revert proper version of the text, mentioning your dispute? I think you don't notice this line.

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]] ([[User talk:Fireball|talk]]) 13:14, 25 August 2013 (GMT)

I see that you have made your policy ''even more self-contradictory'' than it was before.

Look, I've grown very tired of re-explaining what a counterparty is to you, but I'll mention one last thing. It seems like you're attempting in vain to come up with some policy that lets you force-close adequately-margined positions and still claim that you are the counterparty. This is totally impossible. If you're force-closing adequately-margined positions, the price used to force closure is not a market-determined price! You're shutting down the market (and perhaps letting it restart, but that's irrelevant) so whatever price you use to force-close is of your own choosing. You've robbed the asset holder of the ability to hold-to-maturity and take delivery. You might think the price you're offering them is fair compensation, but that's beside the point. Without the option to hold-to-maturity there is no way to determine the fair price.

I know you really really really want there to be some magical way you can be an exchange and still retain the ability to force-close the positions of people who have adequate margin because other people (their COUNTERPARTIES) no longer have adequate margin. There is no such magic. So make your choice -- either pledge the exchange's assets+equity to back positions taken (not just whatever part of the position you claim to be "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)") or stop calling yourself an exchange. Putting your business itself on the hook, financially, for the full extent of all positions taken is the only way you can be trusted to run a sufficiently careful margin system, since you are the one exposed for failure to police margins. Reserving the right to dump that risk on your customers whenever you screwed up… well, you can do whatever you want, but there's a damn good reason why no real exchange does this.

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 09:28, 26 August 2013 (GMT)

== Whether ICBIT is a scam ==

Fireball you say in the edits "Undo edits of users who lost money on ICBIT and now blackmailing me by spamming this wikipage asking to give them money back."

I'll say this again. I've made pretty clear my complaints with icbit. It is run dishonestly. I guarantee that no genuine trader, familiar with common practices on financial exchanges, will continue on your site when they notice the things you do. By engaging in corrupt practices you are eliminating your own chances to have a successful business.

My complaints are spelled out clearly.

Trying to get money returned to me that you took through crooked practices is not blackmail.

Warning people about you is not spamming.

Offering to suggest ways to make your site clean in exchange for the return of some of what I lost is generous.

Again, I am giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you are a very young person with no experience who simply is not familiar with basic business ethics.

---------
[[User:FleaSpirit|FleaSpirit]] ([[User talk:FleaSpirit|talk]]) 04:25, 22 September 2013 (GMT)FleaSpirit
=== Fireball, wanting money back that was taken through dishonest practices is not blackmail. ===

If you are comfortable with the practices you engage in on your website, why don't you address some of the accusations that have been made against you and your site?

1) Prices are blatantly manipulated through last clearing. The site encourages this, apparently because one or more site owners profit from it. A person expects prices to derive from movements in bitcoin, not overt manipulations. I have provided screenshots on the linked post below.

2) People running the site use their access to client financial information to conduct trades running positions against those clients.

For other observations refer to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845 which you have so far refused to even respond to.

If you want to defend your practices either here or on the forum Fireball, please do so.

No serious trader will stay on your site when they see the kinds of things you do. You are not running an honest financial exchange, you are running a scam built on keeping your clients in the dark about how you operate.

I have made and lost a lot of money on financial exchanges in the last 30+ years and I have never in my life made any sort of complaint against any exchange until yours.

[[User:FleaSpirit|FleaSpirit]] ([[User talk:FleaSpirit|talk]]) 16:41, 26 August 2013 (GMT)FleaSpirit

Talk:ICBIT

2013-09-22T04:25:24Z

FleaSpirit: /* Whether ICBIT is a scam */

There are at least two different edit disputes on this page. Please try to put your comments in the appropriate section and please try to deal with only one of these disputes in each of your edits. Thanks. [[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 23:20, 26 August 2013 (GMT)

__FORCETOC__

== Whether ICBIT is an Exchange providing full Central Counterparty backing ==

Please stop deleting material from this page. For a very long time ICBIT's webpage clearly explained that it was not a central counterparty. Now it's been changed to something absurdly self-contradictory that essentially says "we call ourselves a central counterparty but we aren't one and we explicitly deny the responsibilities that define the role of a central counterparty". The whole point of having a futures exchange is that you're exposed to credit risk from only one party and you know who that party is (the exchange). ICBIT is not doing that. If they decide to do that and say so publicly, then feel free to change this page, but unless/until then please stop deleting important facts. [[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 16:04, 13 August 2013 (GMT)

First of all, finally thank you for taking this into Discussion page. The thing is that you seem to misunderstand how exchanges work. Indeed, ICBIT acts as a counterparty to all futures contracts trades happening, and all major fiat money futures exchanges out there do the same.

That means that if one trader buys 2 BTC/USD contracts, counterparty is ICBIT, and it is also counterparty to those traders who sold these 2 contracts!

Graphically:

Trader 1 Trader 4
Trader 2 <==> ICBIT <==> Trader 5
Trader 3 Trader 6

Now, the most important fact: Sum of all money paid by loosing users equals to sum of all money paid to profiting users!

And when any user from loosing side goes bankrupt, central counterparty (aka exchange) has to pay its own money. We do that, but we can't do that all the time, and we can't guarantee it happens all the time, so that's why we say that we guarantee to pay as much, as loosing traders are able to pay.

Again, that's absolutely same to how fiat-money "real-world" exchanges work. They have reserve funds, and they often go bankrupt (lookup recent Hong Kong's derivatives market bankrupcy, for example).

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]]

No, Fireball, ''you'' misunderstand how exchanges work, and you do not appear to understand what [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_risk#Counterparty_risk Counterparty Risk] is. Being a central counterparty is much more then simply being a central intermediary. Your diagram shows a central ''intermediary,'' not a central counterparty.

Here, since you like pictures:

Trader 1 Trader 4
Trader 2 <==> Intermediary <==> Trader 5
Trader 3 Trader 6

You write "and when any user from loosing side goes bankrupt, central counterparty (aka exchange) has to pay its own money. We do that, but we can't do that all the time, and we can't guarantee it happens '''all the time'''" -- then you are not a central counterparty '''all the time'''. It's just that simple. When you're ready to do that all the time like COMEX and Nasdaq do, '''all the time''' with a pledge of the assets and equity of the exchange itself to fulfill any default like COMEX and Nasdaq do, then announce it publicly and you'll be an exchange (at least in that essential respect). Until then stop posting factually incorrect information on the wiki.

Here's the problem:

Trader 1 defaults ======> ICBIT unable to collect ======> Trader 4 is told "you lose"

This means that ''Trader 1'' was the counterparty, not ICBIT.

If I buy a call option from on Nasdaq and it is cleared against an uncovered sell order by Bob Jones of Louisiana, I am not exposed to Bob Jones' bankruptcy even though selling uncovered calls has unlimited risk. Nasdaq will make good on the option '''all the time''', and if it doesn't Nasdaq itself is in default. This is the one and only reason why I don't care (and in fact don't know) who the hell Bob Jones is.

If I buy a COMEX contract for December delivery of gold and it is cleared against a sell order by Karl Marx of Zimbabwe, I am not exposed to Karl Marx's bankruptcy. COMEX will make delivery of the gold '''all the time''', and if it doesn't COMEX itself is in default. This is the one and only reason why I don't care (and in fact don't know) who the hell Karl Marx is.

Note that this is in stark contrast, to, say, credit default swaps which are not centrally cleared. And, in fact, note that there is no credit default swap exchange since CDS don't have a central counterparty. A CDS is always a direct transaction between two parties; the identity of the other party is always known and in fact ''who'' the counterparty is has a massive effect on the value of the CDS.

Stop vandalizing the page with your marketing propaganda.

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 23:10, 13 August 2013 (GMT)

Your last three paragraphs are absolutely correct, and it happens same way on ICBIT! That is what I am trying to explain you for weeks.
We do NOT bind futures contracts directly - e.g. you bought 1 contract from Friedrich Engels of South Africa, he went bankrupt and you did not get the money, and everyone else got their profit because they were lucky to make a deal with Karl Marx instead, who is more credible.

So when you trade at ICBIT, you also do not care who the Karl Marx is. In ICBIT, your futures transaction 2nd party is always exchange (when you buy someone's order, there will be at least 2 transactions 1 buy and 1 sell, both of them will have same 2nd party - the exchange).

Now take the example with COMEX and gold. It will make delivery of gold (same way as ICBIT delivers profit for contracts, pledging its own assets) and non-paying Karl Marx will be sued by banks/brokers, government enforcement agency will sell his car and house to cover losses.
ICBIT allows anonymous trades, so to prevent default we have to employ various risk reducing strategies, however theoretically (what I am trying to get you to understand again!) COMEX can easily go default, ICBIT can easily go default and Hong Kong's exchange already went default (even though it was/is an exchange, not some gambling house).
In that case, as it's explained on our webpage, we just pay as much as possible, close as much traders position as it's necessary and then traders are free to reopen them. This is because traders are anonymous, though we do reserve the right to pursue debtors.

Is this finally clear, and could *you* please stop vandalizing the page? I see that you are not new to finances, however if you want to redefine what exchange is, what counterparty is - please go to Wikipedia instead. I'm not for marketing propoganda, I'm for facts.

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]] ([[User talk:Fireball|talk]]) 11:57, 14 August 2013 (GMT)

> Your last three paragraphs are absolutely correct,

If that is true, point me to ICBIT's publicly-stated commitment that it pledges its own assets and equity to "make delivery of (the relevant asset) all the time, and if it doesn't ICBIT itself is in default" as I wrote in the second-to-last and third-to-last paragraphs. Until then the page stays the way it was. Don't revert it again. "We just pay as much as possible" is vague and useless; what matters is whether the exchange pledges its own assets and equity.

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 07:04, 15 August 2013 (GMT)

> The reference was and is there (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414), on the wiki page itself, which lets user read the original thread and make his opinion. So exchange does pledge the assets, and hence I restored the webpage.

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]] ([[User talk:Fireball|talk]]) 23:31, 15 August 2013 (GMT)

> The reference was and is there (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414), on the wiki page itself, which lets user read the original thread and make his opinion. So exchange does pledge the assets,

What? You're not making any sense. That forum posting does not address the issue here.

> and hence I restored the webpage.

I have reported your repeated unconstructive edits to the wiki administrators.

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 02:26, 16 August 2013 (GMT)

If you are not able to understand what's written there, it's your problem, not a problem of users visiting this page. Your actions are harming the community. Look around, the only scam reports are from you and another guy who lost money trading and now blackmails me asking for 1/4 of "his" money to be back in exchange for not spamming this page and forums. Get out of your small world and look around, again. Do you want Bitcoin to succeed? Or you want to kill it, one by one? We really run an honest service for more than 2 years. We contribute to the Bitcoin economy. We work on it every day and every hour. Don't spoil the fun. Hopefully, it's my last message to you.

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]] ([[User talk:Fireball|talk]]) 13:52, 24 August 2013 (GMT)

I haven't posted anything about scam reports; I just revert your unjustified deletions. You are seriously confused. Take your nonsense elsewhere. Here's an idea: if you don't like the part about scam reports, how about '''removing only that part''' instead of huge chunks of unrelated text? Yeah, I know, that would be way too easy...

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 02:40, 25 August 2013 (GMT)

If you can find time for reverts, you could find time for editing, not just reverting. Anyway, I reverted it to the good version, BUT added a text that YOU dispute that ICBIT is not the central counterparty for all trades. And referenced this page so that anyone interested could read through this page and get their own impression.
Because it's YOUR impression, and it must not be forced to EVERYONE reading the page. Readers should get their own impression. And wikipage must state facts, not a biased opinion of some stranger.
The version of text now is as precise as it is. Your description is not correct because you mislead customers into thinking that they trade futures with each other, when in fact they are trading with the exchange (it's a simple fact that I am one of those people who built this exchange from the ground up, and thus I know its internals much better than you do)

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]] ([[User talk:Fireball|talk]]) 12:38, 25 August 2013 (GMT)

You work for ICBIT. I have no stake in its success or failure, nor am I in any way involved with any of its competitors or alternatives.

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 12:45, 25 August 2013 (GMT)

So why the hell did you revert proper version of the text, mentioning your dispute? I think you don't notice this line.

[[User:Fireball|Fireball]] ([[User talk:Fireball|talk]]) 13:14, 25 August 2013 (GMT)

I see that you have made your policy ''even more self-contradictory'' than it was before.

Look, I've grown very tired of re-explaining what a counterparty is to you, but I'll mention one last thing. It seems like you're attempting in vain to come up with some policy that lets you force-close adequately-margined positions and still claim that you are the counterparty. This is totally impossible. If you're force-closing adequately-margined positions, the price used to force closure is not a market-determined price! You're shutting down the market (and perhaps letting it restart, but that's irrelevant) so whatever price you use to force-close is of your own choosing. You've robbed the asset holder of the ability to hold-to-maturity and take delivery. You might think the price you're offering them is fair compensation, but that's beside the point. Without the option to hold-to-maturity there is no way to determine the fair price.

I know you really really really want there to be some magical way you can be an exchange and still retain the ability to force-close the positions of people who have adequate margin because other people (their COUNTERPARTIES) no longer have adequate margin. There is no such magic. So make your choice -- either pledge the exchange's assets+equity to back positions taken (not just whatever part of the position you claim to be "as much to profiting traders as loosing traders lost (in total)") or stop calling yourself an exchange. Putting your business itself on the hook, financially, for the full extent of all positions taken is the only way you can be trusted to run a sufficiently careful margin system, since you are the one exposed for failure to police margins. Reserving the right to dump that risk on your customers whenever you screwed up… well, you can do whatever you want, but there's a damn good reason why no real exchange does this.

[[User:Eldentyrell|Eldentyrell]] ([[User talk:Eldentyrell|talk]]) 09:28, 26 August 2013 (GMT)

== Whether ICBIT is a scam ==

Fireball you say in the edits "Undo edits of users who lost money on ICBIT and now blackmailing me by spamming this wikipage asking to give them money back."

I'll say this again. I've made pretty clear my complaints with icbit. It is run dishonestly. I guarantee that no genuine trader, familiar with common practices on financial exchanges, will continue on your site when they notice the things you do. By engaging in corrupt practices you are eliminating your own chances to have a successful business.

My complaints are spelled out clearly.

Trying to get money returned to me that you took through crooked practices is not blackmail.

Warning people about you is not spamming.

Offering to suggest ways to make your site clean in exchange for the return of some of what I lost is generous.

Again, I am giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you are a very young person with no experience who simply is not familiar with basic business ethics.

---------
(whoever wrote the comment above forgot to sign it)
---------
[[User:FleaSpirit|FleaSpirit]] ([[User talk:FleaSpirit|talk]]) 04:25, 22 September 2013 (GMT)FleaSpirit
=== Fireball, wanting money back that was taken through dishonest practices is not blackmail. ===

If you are comfortable with the practices you engage in on your website, why don't you address some of the accusations that have been made against you and your site?

1) Prices are blatantly manipulated through last clearing. The site encourages this, apparently because one or more site owners profit from it. A person expects prices to derive from movements in bitcoin, not overt manipulations. I have provided screenshots on the linked post below.

2) People running the site use their access to client financial information to conduct trades running positions against those clients.

For other observations refer to https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845 which you have so far refused to even respond to.

If you want to defend your practices either here or on the forum Fireball, please do so.

No serious trader will stay on your site when they see the kinds of things you do. You are not running an honest financial exchange, you are running a scam built on keeping your clients in the dark about how you operate.

I have made and lost a lot of money on financial exchanges in the last 30+ years and I have never in my life made any sort of complaint against any exchange until yours.

[[User:FleaSpirit|FleaSpirit]] ([[User talk:FleaSpirit|talk]]) 16:41, 26 August 2013 (GMT)FleaSpirit

ICBIT

2013-09-20T14:23:23Z

FleaSpirit:

−''''' There are have been complaints about several core practices at icbit.'''''−

-The primary complaint involves contract price manipulations that allow larger traders, including the site owner, to make easy profits from smaller traders regardless of bitcoin price movements.

Documentation of contract manipulations, including screenshots, is included in some of the complaints, including https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845

Complaints directed to the owner of icbit, who also is the principle contributor to this wiki page, include https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0

The owner of icbit has so far refused to publicly answer complaints and has refused to refund money to those who have lost money due to practices that a reasonable person would not spot without observing the site for a period of time.

−'''Any potential investor should understand the issues raised in the complaints. If you are not sure please ask questions in a public forum like bitcointalk.org and do not invest until all questions are answered to your satisfaction.'''−<ref>[http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/icbitse-the-bucket-shop/ Article by Mircea Popescu, proprietor of MPEx]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173928.0]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125376.0 Bitcointalk "bucket shop" thread]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845 Bitcointalk "icbit warning" thread]</ref>

- - - - - - - -

ICBIT is a trading website which runs a few markets. Both the Exchange and Futures markets are live now.

This site is said[source?] to be founded by Fireball and [[DeepBit]] by combining best practices in high-performance trading and Bitcoin experience.

ICBIT Exchange acts as a central counterparty for all trades however [https://icbit.se/margincall according to their website] users could be exposed to risk of traders going bankrupt; the exchange may [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414 pledge its own assets] to back the other side of a customer's position, however it's not always the case. Traders are not allowed to conduct any background or reputation checks of other traders. This is part of trading rules there.

== Features ==
For its currency exchange section ICBIT makes an accent on the following:
* State-of-the-art technologies usage. Instead of using old, slow, polling-based algorithms ICBIT builds atop of the most up to date technologies. Its web trading client is in pure HTML and JavaScript (even compatible with most mobile devices), however it's fully realtime thanks to websockets and AJAX.
* Speed of trading. Bitcoin forum is full of anger against slowness of existing exchanges. ICBIT implements special high performance trading engine and uses high-performance "no SQL" database to eliminate the problem.
* No limits. Most of the existing exchanges put rather restrictive limitations and require users to prove their identity. ICBIT finds this totally unacceptable and does not put any limits at all.

==Futures==
Futures traded include:

Futures contracts on USD/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/BUQ3 BUQ3] (expires August 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUU3 BUU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUV3 BUV3] (expires October 14, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ3 BUZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on Bitcoin difficulty
* [https://icbit.se/DFU3 DFU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/DFZ3 DFZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on LTC/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/LBU3 LBU3] (expires September 17, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on S&P500 index
* [https://icbit.se/ESU3 ESU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Settled futures:
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ2 BUZ2] (Futures contract, expired December 15, 2012, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUH3 BUH3] (Futures contract, expired March 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/CLG3 CLG3] (Crude Oil Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/GDG3 GDG3] (Gold Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)

==Exchange==
Traded on the exchange are:

* BTC/USD
* BTC/RUB (Russian Ruble)

==Adding Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin deposits to the account's BTC EWallet. Funds are added to the account's wallet after six (6) confirmations. Transactions made by [[DeepBit]] mining pool are added instantly.

===USD===

There are no methods to add USD funds.

===RUB===

QIWI vouchers can be used to add funds to an account's Russian ruble EWallet.

==Widthraw Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin withdrawals from the account's BTC EWallet.

===USD===

There are no USD withdrawal methods.

===RUB===

Funds can be withdrawn from the account's Russian ruble EWallet as QIWI vouchers.

==Security==

Accounts can be protected where both login and any money withdrawal operation requires the one-time password (OTP) feature known as two-step authentication. A mobile smartphone with Google Authenticator is the most commonly used OTP device.

== History ==
First mentions of ICBIT appeared in June and July 2011 in the Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread at bitcointalk.org<ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=20377.msg319099#msg319099 Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread]</ref> and Bitcoin futures market discussion <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15818.msg250391#msg250391 Fireball's statement about ongoing futures exchange work]</ref>. By that time a very first version of the trading engine was developed.

A more detailed thread specific to ICBIT futures market was started <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg605807#msg605807 ICBIT derivatives market thread]</ref> in November, 2011. The first closed test of futures market was performed, and work on the new version of web trading client was started.

Finally in January, 2012 the currency exchange section went live <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60548.0 Bitcointalk announcement of a new exchange live testing]</ref>

==See Also==

* [[Buying bitcoins]]
* [[Selling bitcoins]]

== External Links ==
* [https://icbit.se ICBIT] website.
* [https://icbit.se/WebTrade/ Trading client] Direct link to the web trading client logon.
* At one point in the past, somebody who goes by the identifier "Fireball" [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414 voluntarily took the took one "bad customers" debt].

== References ==
<references />

[[Category:Exchanges]]
[[Category:Stock_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Bonds_Markets]]
[[Category:Futures_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Investing]]

ICBIT

2013-09-20T13:42:21Z

FleaSpirit: Undo revision 41163 by Eldentyrell (talk) Please comment on why you call this vandalism, either on the discussion thread here, or at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845

−''''' Note. There are complaints of dishonest practices at icbit.'''''−

-The primary complaint involves contract price manipulations. These manipulations allow larger traders, including the site owner, to strip funds from smaller traders.

Documentation of deliberate contract manipulation, including screenshots, is included in the public complaints, including https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845

The owner of icbit has so far refused to publicly answer complaints about unethical practices, has refused suggestions on how to clean up his site and has refused to refund money to those who have lost money due to these practices.

−'''Any potential investor should understand the issues raised in the complaints. If you are not sure please ask questions in a public forum like bitcointalk.org and do not invest until all questions are answered to your satisfaction.'''−<ref>[http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/icbitse-the-bucket-shop/ Article by Mircea Popescu, proprietor of MPEx]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125376.0 Bitcointalk "bucket shop" thread]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845 Bitcointalk "icbit warning" thread]</ref>

- - - - - - - -

ICBIT is a trading website which runs a few markets. Both the Exchange and Futures markets are live now.

This site is said[source?] to be founded by Fireball and [[DeepBit]] by combining best practices in high-performance trading and Bitcoin experience.

ICBIT Exchange acts as a central counterparty for all trades however [https://icbit.se/margincall according to their website] users could be exposed to risk of traders going bankrupt; the exchange may [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414 pledge its own assets] to back the other side of a customer's position, however it's not always the case. Traders are not allowed to conduct any background or reputation checks of other traders. This is part of trading rules there.

== Features ==
For its currency exchange section ICBIT makes an accent on the following:
* State-of-the-art technologies usage. Instead of using old, slow, polling-based algorithms ICBIT builds atop of the most up to date technologies. Its web trading client is in pure HTML and JavaScript (even compatible with most mobile devices), however it's fully realtime thanks to websockets and AJAX.
* Speed of trading. Bitcoin forum is full of anger against slowness of existing exchanges. ICBIT implements special high performance trading engine and uses high-performance "no SQL" database to eliminate the problem.
* No limits. Most of the existing exchanges put rather restrictive limitations and require users to prove their identity. ICBIT finds this totally unacceptable and does not put any limits at all.

==Futures==
Futures traded include:

Futures contracts on USD/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/BUQ3 BUQ3] (expires August 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUU3 BUU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUV3 BUV3] (expires October 14, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ3 BUZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on Bitcoin difficulty
* [https://icbit.se/DFU3 DFU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/DFZ3 DFZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on LTC/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/LBU3 LBU3] (expires September 17, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on S&P500 index
* [https://icbit.se/ESU3 ESU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Settled futures:
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ2 BUZ2] (Futures contract, expired December 15, 2012, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUH3 BUH3] (Futures contract, expired March 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/CLG3 CLG3] (Crude Oil Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/GDG3 GDG3] (Gold Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)

==Exchange==
Traded on the exchange are:

* BTC/USD
* BTC/RUB (Russian Ruble)

==Adding Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin deposits to the account's BTC EWallet. Funds are added to the account's wallet after six (6) confirmations. Transactions made by [[DeepBit]] mining pool are added instantly.

===USD===

There are no methods to add USD funds.

===RUB===

QIWI vouchers can be used to add funds to an account's Russian ruble EWallet.

==Widthraw Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin withdrawals from the account's BTC EWallet.

===USD===

There are no USD withdrawal methods.

===RUB===

Funds can be withdrawn from the account's Russian ruble EWallet as QIWI vouchers.

==Security==

Accounts can be protected where both login and any money withdrawal operation requires the one-time password (OTP) feature known as two-step authentication. A mobile smartphone with Google Authenticator is the most commonly used OTP device.

== History ==
First mentions of ICBIT appeared in June and July 2011 in the Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread at bitcointalk.org<ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=20377.msg319099#msg319099 Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread]</ref> and Bitcoin futures market discussion <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15818.msg250391#msg250391 Fireball's statement about ongoing futures exchange work]</ref>. By that time a very first version of the trading engine was developed.

A more detailed thread specific to ICBIT futures market was started <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg605807#msg605807 ICBIT derivatives market thread]</ref> in November, 2011. The first closed test of futures market was performed, and work on the new version of web trading client was started.

Finally in January, 2012 the currency exchange section went live <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60548.0 Bitcointalk announcement of a new exchange live testing]</ref>

==See Also==

* [[Buying bitcoins]]
* [[Selling bitcoins]]

== External Links ==
* [https://icbit.se ICBIT] website.
* [https://icbit.se/WebTrade/ Trading client] Direct link to the web trading client logon.
* At one point in the past, somebody who goes by the identifier "Fireball" [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414 voluntarily took the took one "bad customers" debt].

== References ==
<references />

[[Category:Exchanges]]
[[Category:Stock_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Bonds_Markets]]
[[Category:Futures_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Investing]]

ICBIT

2013-09-20T01:36:09Z

FleaSpirit: Undo revision 41122 by Fireball (talk)

ICBIT

2013-09-18T21:53:16Z

FleaSpirit: Undo revision 41109 by Fireball (talk)

−''''' Warning. There are reports of dishonest practices at icbit.'''''−

−'''''The website owner has refused so far to publicly respond to accusations.'''''−

-Complaints include contract price manipulations, which website management tacitly encourages. These manipulations allow larger traders, including the site owner, to strip funds from smaller traders.

Several icbit practices are generally considered unacceptable on mainstream derivatives exchanges.

Documentation of deliberate contract manipulation, including screenshots, is included in public complaints.

−The owner of icbit has so far refused to answer complaints publicly, has refused suggestions on how to clean up his site and has refused to refund money to those who notice unethical practices.

−'''Any potential investor should understand the issues raised in the complaints. If you are not sure please ask questions in a public forum like bitcointalk.org and do not send any funds until all questions are answered to your satisfaction.'''−<ref>[http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/icbitse-the-bucket-shop/ Article by Mircea Popescu, proprietor of MPEx]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125376.0 Bitcointalk "bucket shop" thread]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845 Bitcointalk "icbit warning" thread]</ref>

- - - - - - - -

ICBIT is a trading website which runs a few markets. Both the Exchange and Futures markets are live now.

This site is said[source?] to be founded by Fireball and [[DeepBit]] by combining best practices in high-performance trading and Bitcoin experience.

ICBIT Exchange acts as a central counterparty for all trades however [https://icbit.se/margincall according to their website] users could be exposed to risk of traders going bankrupt; the exchange may [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414 pledge its own assets] to back the other side of a customer's position, however it's not always the case. Traders are not allowed to conduct any background or reputation checks of other traders. This is part of trading rules there.

== Features ==
For its currency exchange section ICBIT makes an accent on the following:
* State-of-the-art technologies usage. Instead of using old, slow, polling-based algorithms ICBIT builds atop of the most up to date technologies. Its web trading client is in pure HTML and JavaScript (even compatible with most mobile devices), however it's fully realtime thanks to websockets and AJAX.
* Speed of trading. Bitcoin forum is full of anger against slowness of existing exchanges. ICBIT implements special high performance trading engine and uses high-performance "no SQL" database to eliminate the problem.
* No limits. Most of the existing exchanges put rather restrictive limitations and require users to prove their identity. ICBIT finds this totally unacceptable and does not put any limits at all.

==Futures==
Futures traded include:

Futures contracts on USD/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/BUQ3 BUQ3] (expires August 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUU3 BUU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUV3 BUV3] (expires October 14, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ3 BUZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on Bitcoin difficulty
* [https://icbit.se/DFU3 DFU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/DFZ3 DFZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on LTC/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/LBU3 LBU3] (expires September 17, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on S&P500 index
* [https://icbit.se/ESU3 ESU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Settled futures:
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ2 BUZ2] (Futures contract, expired December 15, 2012, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUH3 BUH3] (Futures contract, expired March 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/CLG3 CLG3] (Crude Oil Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/GDG3 GDG3] (Gold Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)

==Exchange==
Traded on the exchange are:

* BTC/USD
* BTC/RUB (Russian Ruble)

==Adding Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin deposits to the account's BTC EWallet. Funds are added to the account's wallet after six (6) confirmations. Transactions made by [[DeepBit]] mining pool are added instantly.

===USD===

There are no methods to add USD funds.

===RUB===

QIWI vouchers can be used to add funds to an account's Russian ruble EWallet.

==Widthraw Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin withdrawals from the account's BTC EWallet.

===USD===

There are no USD withdrawal methods.

===RUB===

Funds can be withdrawn from the account's Russian ruble EWallet as QIWI vouchers.

==Security==

Accounts can be protected where both login and any money withdrawal operation requires the one-time password (OTP) feature known as two-step authentication. A mobile smartphone with Google Authenticator is the most commonly used OTP device.

== History ==
First mentions of ICBIT appeared in June and July 2011 in the Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread at bitcointalk.org<ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=20377.msg319099#msg319099 Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread]</ref> and Bitcoin futures market discussion <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15818.msg250391#msg250391 Fireball's statement about ongoing futures exchange work]</ref>. By that time a very first version of the trading engine was developed.

A more detailed thread specific to ICBIT futures market was started <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg605807#msg605807 ICBIT derivatives market thread]</ref> in November, 2011. The first closed test of futures market was performed, and work on the new version of web trading client was started.

Finally in January, 2012 the currency exchange section went live <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60548.0 Bitcointalk announcement of a new exchange live testing]</ref>

==See Also==

* [[Buying bitcoins]]
* [[Selling bitcoins]]

== External Links ==
* [https://icbit.se ICBIT] website.
* [https://icbit.se/WebTrade/ Trading client] Direct link to the web trading client logon.
* At one point in the past, somebody who goes by the identifier "Fireball" [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414 voluntarily took the took one "bad customers" debt].

== References ==
<references />

[[Category:Exchanges]]
[[Category:Stock_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Bonds_Markets]]
[[Category:Futures_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Investing]]

ICBIT

2013-09-18T19:25:01Z

FleaSpirit:

ICBIT

2013-09-18T19:23:32Z

FleaSpirit: Undo revision 41105 by Fireball (talk)

−''''' Warning. There are reports of dishonest practices at icbit.'''''−

−'''''The website owner has refused so far to publicly respond to accusations.'''''−

-Complaints include contract price manipulations, which website management tacitly encourages. These manipulations allow larger traders, including the site owner, to strip funds from smaller traders. Several icbit practices are not considered acceptable on any mainstream derivatives exchange anywhere in the world.

Documentation of deliberate contract manipulation, including screenshots, is included in several public complaints.

−The owner of icbit has so far refused to answer complaints publicly, has refused suggestions on how to clean up his site and has refused to refund money to those who notice unethical practices.

−'''Any potential investor should understand the issues raised in the complaints. If you are not sure please ask questions in a public forum like bitcointalk.org and do not send any funds until all questions are answered to your satisfaction.'''−<ref>[http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/icbitse-the-bucket-shop/ Article by Mircea Popescu, proprietor of MPEx]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125376.0 Bitcointalk "bucket shop" thread]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845 Bitcointalk "icbit warning" thread]</ref>

- - - - - - - -

ICBIT is a trading website which runs a few markets. Both the Exchange and Futures markets are live now.

This site is said[source?] to be founded by Fireball and [[DeepBit]] by combining best practices in high-performance trading and Bitcoin experience.

ICBIT Exchange acts as a central counterparty for all trades however [https://icbit.se/margincall according to their website] users could be exposed to risk of traders going bankrupt; the exchange may [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414 pledge its own assets] to back the other side of a customer's position, however it's not always the case. Traders are not allowed to conduct any background or reputation checks of other traders. This is part of trading rules there.

== Features ==
For its currency exchange section ICBIT makes an accent on the following:
* State-of-the-art technologies usage. Instead of using old, slow, polling-based algorithms ICBIT builds atop of the most up to date technologies. Its web trading client is in pure HTML and JavaScript (even compatible with most mobile devices), however it's fully realtime thanks to websockets and AJAX.
* Speed of trading. Bitcoin forum is full of anger against slowness of existing exchanges. ICBIT implements special high performance trading engine and uses high-performance "no SQL" database to eliminate the problem.
* No limits. Most of the existing exchanges put rather restrictive limitations and require users to prove their identity. ICBIT finds this totally unacceptable and does not put any limits at all.

==Futures==
Futures traded include:

Futures contracts on USD/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/BUQ3 BUQ3] (expires August 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUU3 BUU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUV3 BUV3] (expires October 14, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ3 BUZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on Bitcoin difficulty
* [https://icbit.se/DFU3 DFU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/DFZ3 DFZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on LTC/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/LBU3 LBU3] (expires September 17, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on S&P500 index
* [https://icbit.se/ESU3 ESU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Settled futures:
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ2 BUZ2] (Futures contract, expired December 15, 2012, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUH3 BUH3] (Futures contract, expired March 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/CLG3 CLG3] (Crude Oil Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/GDG3 GDG3] (Gold Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)

==Exchange==
Traded on the exchange are:

* BTC/USD
* BTC/RUB (Russian Ruble)

==Adding Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin deposits to the account's BTC EWallet. Funds are added to the account's wallet after six (6) confirmations. Transactions made by [[DeepBit]] mining pool are added instantly.

===USD===

There are no methods to add USD funds.

===RUB===

QIWI vouchers can be used to add funds to an account's Russian ruble EWallet.

==Widthraw Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin withdrawals from the account's BTC EWallet.

===USD===

There are no USD withdrawal methods.

===RUB===

Funds can be withdrawn from the account's Russian ruble EWallet as QIWI vouchers.

==Security==

Accounts can be protected where both login and any money withdrawal operation requires the one-time password (OTP) feature known as two-step authentication. A mobile smartphone with Google Authenticator is the most commonly used OTP device.

== History ==
First mentions of ICBIT appeared in June and July 2011 in the Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread at bitcointalk.org<ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=20377.msg319099#msg319099 Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread]</ref> and Bitcoin futures market discussion <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15818.msg250391#msg250391 Fireball's statement about ongoing futures exchange work]</ref>. By that time a very first version of the trading engine was developed.

A more detailed thread specific to ICBIT futures market was started <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg605807#msg605807 ICBIT derivatives market thread]</ref> in November, 2011. The first closed test of futures market was performed, and work on the new version of web trading client was started.

Finally in January, 2012 the currency exchange section went live <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60548.0 Bitcointalk announcement of a new exchange live testing]</ref>

==See Also==

* [[Buying bitcoins]]
* [[Selling bitcoins]]

== External Links ==
* [https://icbit.se ICBIT] website.
* [https://icbit.se/WebTrade/ Trading client] Direct link to the web trading client logon.
* At one point in the past, somebody who goes by the identifier "Fireball" [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414 voluntarily took the took one "bad customers" debt].

== References ==
<references />

[[Category:Exchanges]]
[[Category:Stock_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Bonds_Markets]]
[[Category:Futures_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Investing]]

ICBIT

2013-09-18T19:06:59Z

FleaSpirit: Undo revision 41094 by Fireball (talk)

−''''' Warning. '''''

'''''There are several reports of dishonest practices at icbit.'''''

'''''The website owner has refused to respond to accusations publicly.'''''−

-These accusations include that contract prices do not trade purely based on bitcoin price movements and speculative pressures, but largely on manipulations and that website management cooperates with, and encourages, these manipulations. This allows larger traders, including the site owner, to effectively strip funds from smaller traders.

There are other ethical issues at icbit as well.

−The owner of icbit has so far refused to answer complaints publicly, he has refused suggestions on how to clean up his site and he has refused to refund money to those who point out unethical practices.

−'''Please do not invest any money at icbit until you understand the issues raised in the complaints and/or the alleged dishonest practices have been changed. If you are not sure please ask questions in a public forum like bitcointalk.org and do not give any money until all questions are answered to your satisfaction.'''−<ref>[http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/icbitse-the-bucket-shop/ Article by Mircea Popescu, proprietor of MPEx]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125376.0 Bitcointalk "bucket shop" thread]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845 Bitcointalk "icbit warning" thread]</ref>

- - - - - - - -

ICBIT is a trading website which runs a few markets. Both the Exchange and Futures markets are live now.

This site is said[source?] to be founded by Fireball and [[DeepBit]] by combining best practices in high-performance trading and Bitcoin experience.

ICBIT Exchange acts as a central counterparty for all trades however [https://icbit.se/margincall according to their website] users could be exposed to risk of traders going bankrupt; the exchange may [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414 pledge its own assets] to back the other side of a customer's position, however it's not always the case. Traders are not allowed to conduct any background or reputation checks of other traders. This is part of trading rules there.

== Features ==
For its currency exchange section ICBIT makes an accent on the following:
* State-of-the-art technologies usage. Instead of using old, slow, polling-based algorithms ICBIT builds atop of the most up to date technologies. Its web trading client is in pure HTML and JavaScript (even compatible with most mobile devices), however it's fully realtime thanks to websockets and AJAX.
* Speed of trading. Bitcoin forum is full of anger against slowness of existing exchanges. ICBIT implements special high performance trading engine and uses high-performance "no SQL" database to eliminate the problem.
* No limits. Most of the existing exchanges put rather restrictive limitations and require users to prove their identity. ICBIT finds this totally unacceptable and does not put any limits at all.

==Futures==
Futures traded include:

Futures contracts on USD/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/BUQ3 BUQ3] (expires August 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUU3 BUU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUV3 BUV3] (expires October 14, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ3 BUZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on Bitcoin difficulty
* [https://icbit.se/DFU3 DFU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/DFZ3 DFZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on LTC/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/LBU3 LBU3] (expires September 17, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on S&P500 index
* [https://icbit.se/ESU3 ESU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Settled futures:
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ2 BUZ2] (Futures contract, expired December 15, 2012, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUH3 BUH3] (Futures contract, expired March 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/CLG3 CLG3] (Crude Oil Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/GDG3 GDG3] (Gold Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)

==Exchange==
Traded on the exchange are:

* BTC/USD
* BTC/RUB (Russian Ruble)

==Adding Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin deposits to the account's BTC EWallet. Funds are added to the account's wallet after six (6) confirmations. Transactions made by [[DeepBit]] mining pool are added instantly.

===USD===

There are no methods to add USD funds.

===RUB===

QIWI vouchers can be used to add funds to an account's Russian ruble EWallet.

==Widthraw Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin withdrawals from the account's BTC EWallet.

===USD===

There are no USD withdrawal methods.

===RUB===

Funds can be withdrawn from the account's Russian ruble EWallet as QIWI vouchers.

==Security==

Accounts can be protected where both login and any money withdrawal operation requires the one-time password (OTP) feature known as two-step authentication. A mobile smartphone with Google Authenticator is the most commonly used OTP device.

== History ==
First mentions of ICBIT appeared in June and July 2011 in the Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread at bitcointalk.org<ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=20377.msg319099#msg319099 Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread]</ref> and Bitcoin futures market discussion <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15818.msg250391#msg250391 Fireball's statement about ongoing futures exchange work]</ref>. By that time a very first version of the trading engine was developed.

A more detailed thread specific to ICBIT futures market was started <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg605807#msg605807 ICBIT derivatives market thread]</ref> in November, 2011. The first closed test of futures market was performed, and work on the new version of web trading client was started.

Finally in January, 2012 the currency exchange section went live <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60548.0 Bitcointalk announcement of a new exchange live testing]</ref>

==See Also==

* [[Buying bitcoins]]
* [[Selling bitcoins]]

== External Links ==
* [https://icbit.se ICBIT] website.
* [https://icbit.se/WebTrade/ Trading client] Direct link to the web trading client logon.
* At one point in the past, somebody who goes by the identifier "Fireball" [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414 voluntarily took the took one "bad customers" debt].

== References ==
<references />

[[Category:Exchanges]]
[[Category:Stock_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Bonds_Markets]]
[[Category:Futures_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Investing]]

ICBIT

2013-09-18T16:04:13Z

FleaSpirit: Undo revision 41085 by Fireball (talk)

ICBIT

2013-09-17T23:41:59Z

FleaSpirit: Undo revision 41079 by Fireball (talk)

ICBIT

2013-09-17T21:01:00Z

FleaSpirit: Undo revision 41077 by Fireball (talk)

ICBIT

2013-09-17T16:06:11Z

FleaSpirit: Undo revision 41068 by Fireball (talk)

ICBIT

2013-09-16T22:22:36Z

FleaSpirit: Undo revision 41060 by Fireball (talk)

ICBIT

2013-09-16T18:07:31Z

FleaSpirit: Undo revision 41058 by Fireball (talk)

ICBIT

2013-09-16T16:07:23Z

FleaSpirit:

ICBIT

2013-09-16T16:01:21Z

FleaSpirit:

−''''' Warning. '''''

'''''There are several reports of dishonest practices at icbit.'''''

'''''The website owner has refused to respond to accusations publicly.'''''−

-These accusations include that contract prices do not trade purely based on bitcoin price movements and speculative pressures, but largely on manipulations and that website management cooperates with, and encourages, these manipulations. This allows larger traders, including the site owner, to effectively strip funds from smaller traders.

There are other ethical issues at icbit as well.

−The owner of icbit has so far refused to answer complaints publicly, he has refused suggestions on how to clean up his site, he has refused to refund money to those who point out unethical practices.

−'''Please do not invest any money at icbit until you understand the issues raised in the complaints and/or the alleged dishonest practices have been changed. If you are not sure please ask questions in a public forum like bitcointalk.org and do not give any money until all questions are answered to your satisfaction.'''−<ref>[http://polimedia.us/trilema/2012/icbitse-the-bucket-shop/ Article by Mircea Popescu, proprietor of MPEx]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125376.0 Bitcointalk "bucket shop" thread]</ref> <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=246845 Bitcointalk "icbit warning" thread]</ref>

- - - - - - - -

ICBIT is a trading website which runs a few markets. Both the Exchange and Futures markets are live now.

This site is said[source?] to be founded by Fireball and [[DeepBit]] by combining best practices in high-performance trading and Bitcoin experience.

ICBIT Exchange acts as a central counterparty for all trades however [https://icbit.se/margincall according to their website] users could be exposed to risk of traders going bankrupt; the exchange may [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414 pledge its own assets] to back the other side of a customer's position, however it's not always the case. Traders are not allowed to conduct any background or reputation checks of other traders. This is part of trading rules there.

== Features ==
For its currency exchange section ICBIT makes an accent on the following:
* State-of-the-art technologies usage. Instead of using old, slow, polling-based algorithms ICBIT builds atop of the most up to date technologies. Its web trading client is in pure HTML and JavaScript (even compatible with most mobile devices), however it's fully realtime thanks to websockets and AJAX.
* Speed of trading. Bitcoin forum is full of anger against slowness of existing exchanges. ICBIT implements special high performance trading engine and uses high-performance "no SQL" database to eliminate the problem.
* No limits. Most of the existing exchanges put rather restrictive limitations and require users to prove their identity. ICBIT finds this totally unacceptable and does not put any limits at all.

==Futures==
Futures traded include:

Futures contracts on USD/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/BUQ3 BUQ3] (expires August 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUU3 BUU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUV3 BUV3] (expires October 14, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ3 BUZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on Bitcoin difficulty
* [https://icbit.se/DFU3 DFU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/DFZ3 DFZ3] (expires December 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on LTC/BTC rate
* [https://icbit.se/LBU3 LBU3] (expires September 17, 2013, settled in BTC)

Futures contract on S&P500 index
* [https://icbit.se/ESU3 ESU3] (expires September 16, 2013, settled in BTC)

Settled futures:
* [https://icbit.se/BUZ2 BUZ2] (Futures contract, expired December 15, 2012, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/BUH3 BUH3] (Futures contract, expired March 15, 2013, settled in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/CLG3 CLG3] (Crude Oil Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)
* [https://icbit.se/GDG3 GDG3] (Gold Futures contract, expired February 14, 2013, settled and quoted in BTC)

==Exchange==
Traded on the exchange are:

* BTC/USD
* BTC/RUB (Russian Ruble)

==Adding Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin deposits to the account's BTC EWallet. Funds are added to the account's wallet after six (6) confirmations. Transactions made by [[DeepBit]] mining pool are added instantly.

===USD===

There are no methods to add USD funds.

===RUB===

QIWI vouchers can be used to add funds to an account's Russian ruble EWallet.

==Widthraw Funds==

===BTC===

There is no fee for Bitcoin withdrawals from the account's BTC EWallet.

===USD===

There are no USD withdrawal methods.

===RUB===

Funds can be withdrawn from the account's Russian ruble EWallet as QIWI vouchers.

==Security==

Accounts can be protected where both login and any money withdrawal operation requires the one-time password (OTP) feature known as two-step authentication. A mobile smartphone with Google Authenticator is the most commonly used OTP device.

== History ==
First mentions of ICBIT appeared in June and July 2011 in the Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread at bitcointalk.org<ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=20377.msg319099#msg319099 Bitcoin Stock Exchange Security Standards thread]</ref> and Bitcoin futures market discussion <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15818.msg250391#msg250391 Fireball's statement about ongoing futures exchange work]</ref>. By that time a very first version of the trading engine was developed.

A more detailed thread specific to ICBIT futures market was started <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg605807#msg605807 ICBIT derivatives market thread]</ref> in November, 2011. The first closed test of futures market was performed, and work on the new version of web trading client was started.

Finally in January, 2012 the currency exchange section went live <ref>[https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60548.0 Bitcointalk announcement of a new exchange live testing]</ref>

==See Also==

* [[Buying bitcoins]]
* [[Selling bitcoins]]

== External Links ==
* [https://icbit.se ICBIT] website.
* [https://icbit.se/WebTrade/ Trading client] Direct link to the web trading client logon.
* At one point in the past, somebody who goes by the identifier "Fireball" [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50817.msg1402414#msg1402414 voluntarily took the took one "bad customers" debt].

== References ==
<references />

[[Category:Exchanges]]
[[Category:Stock_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Bonds_Markets]]
[[Category:Futures_Exchanges]]
[[Category:Investing]]